Posted on 03/01/2019 7:28:55 AM PST by Mariner
At a moment when the country has never seemed angrier, two political commentators from opposite sides of the divide concurred last week on one point, nearly unthinkable until recently: The country is on the verge of "civil war."
First came former U.S. attorney Joseph diGenova, a Fox News regular and ally of President Trump. "We are in a civil war," he said. "The suggestion that there's ever going to be civil discourse in this country for the foreseeable future is over. . . . It's going to be total war."
The next day, Nicolle Wallace, a former Republican operative turned MSNBC commentator and Trump critic, played a clip of diGenova's commentary on her show and agreed with him - although she placed the blame squarely on the president.
Trump, she said, "greenlit a war in this country around race. And if you think about the most dangerous thing he's done, that might be it."
With the report by special counsel Robert Mueller reportedly nearly complete, impeachment talk in the air and the 2020 presidential election ramping up, fears that once existed only in fiction or the fevered dreams of conspiracy theorists have become a regular part of the political debate. These days, there's talk of violence, mayhem and, increasingly, civil war.
A tumultuous couple of weeks in American politics seem to have raised the rhetorical flourishes to a new level and also brought a troubling question to the surface: At what point does all the alarmist talk of civil war actually increase the prospect of violence, riots or domestic terrorism?
Speaking to conservative pundit Laura Ingraham, diGenova summed up his best advice to friends: "I vote, and I buy guns. And that's what you should do."
(Excerpt) Read more at lmtonline.com ...
There’s probably the diff.
I know from my pretty Chinese coed girlfriends that Meiguo means America, so the rest of your Pinyin quote makes sense.
The question is whether the PLA leadership is aware of it.
Heck, the ChiComs sold us a quadrillion SKS carbines, AK-47 variants, Tokarev & Makarov pistols and Hawk 870 shotguns, and they would dare even wonder about a rifle behind every American blade of grass when half of those are of Chinese make?
Oh, and don’t forget thousands of Chinese broomhandle Mauser pistols with their neat holster stocks winding up on these shores.
Yamamoto asked the uncomfortable question without having to worry about Japan providing the weapons that would slay them like grass before the scythe had they chosen to invade.
Pedantic non-sequiturs don’t help.
Of course I don’t expect a one-line modern summary will perfectly explain/match the decisions of millions living centuries ago.
Of course the one incident wasn’t the only fight-starter for people who were looking for a fight.
And your commentary, while interesting & accurate, has little to do with my point. US military (of whatever pedantic branch) pulled out of all other sites, ceding control to the South; the _one_ site retained was literally built by US military (wasn’t a natural land area), and supplying it was by fair use (ocean access, akin to the Berlin Airlift) ... so when the South started shelling the island, that was a fair line crossed.
BTW I live near GA, and witness the fruit of Sherman’s March to this day.
They’ll never do that ‘til they’ve squeezed the last dime out of us...
Democrats who want to live in our part of the country can’t vote in our elections and pay a fifty dollar a month ‘tax’ for being here... Republicans living in their part of the country won’t be able to vote in their elections either.
Oh and we need a Wall because in a few years people living in the Democrat Socialist hellhole will want to escape to our country... Democrats won’t want their people escaping and our side doesn’t want them coming in...
When and why did we buy all that Chicomm hardware?
Where was Colt, S&W, Remington, ArmaLite and the others?
That may be true about the dorks with their airsoft rifles, but how many of the military were big supporters of obama or even clinton for that matter?
Several answers.
American stuff is high quality and usually expensive.
ChiCom stuff is cheap and adequately finished, as well as based on their combat weaponry. Mostly banned now.
Personal: I’m a Vietnam vet who has hated the Armalite since 1970 when I had to qualify for the first time. Fired expert and continued to do so until my last range firing in 2011 (old warrant officer here). It’s plastic & parkerized and has that lousy charging handle. A large toothbrush somebody called it.
The AK-47 is robust, made of blue steel & wood, and has that certain “commie chic” look to it. I had a deactivated AK ready to bring back but they changed the rules. Many years passed before I could acquire a Norinco AK and part it up to make it look like the one I only see in old photos.
Personal choice, like Fords & Chevvies. Then again, a lot of AR-15’s made by many sources are almost inexpensive. If more people are buying them, that’s fine with me and fits & gagging for Feinstein & other enemies of liberty.
“... US military (of whatever pedantic branch) pulled out of all other sites, ceding control to the South; the _one_ site retained was literally built by US military ... so when the South started shelling the island, that was a fair line crossed.
BTW I live near GA, and witness the fruit of Sherman’s March to this day.” [ctdonath2, post 123]
Gotta admit - dismissing any US armed service as “pedantic” is a new twist. Dilettantes do that.
Wrong yet again, about control of coast-defense fortifications in ACW.
You might trouble yourself to learn about Ft Pickens, on Santa Rosa Island at the entrance to Pensacola Bay. The Union retained possession of it when Florida joined the Confederacy, while mainland defenses and the fortifications on Perdido Key (west of the harbor entrance) were taken over by Confederate forces.
The Union garrison at Ft Pickens engaged in two heavy artillery exchanges with the Confederate defenses, the first late in 1861, the second on New Years Day 1862; CSA forces eventually withdrew. Ft Pickens was one of a small number of facilities on Southern territory to remain in Union hands for the duration of the war.
Details matter...dilettantes frequently brush them aside in the stampede to embrace the big, fancy, high-flown “truths” - after which they deem themselves wise. But any moderately serious student of military history learns - sooner or later - that the high-flown stuff hasn’t any meaning, unless the details are solid.
Over the course of my active duty career, I was required to unscramble the thinking of a number of high-ranking officers on just that topic. Your own thinking cannot be superior to theirs.
How has local knowledge of Sherman’s March affected your outlook?
You continue pedantic non-sequiturs.
You discuss events that started well after the start of the Civil War. I’m discussing the spark that started the Civil War.
You spend paragraphs berating me. I care not about you personally, wishing only that you’d drop the personal attacks and get back on topic.
The only relevant correction you’ve provided regards a 4-character typo.
If you have nothing kind nor relevant to discuss, kindly refrain from responding.
Rather, how many of whatever % that was were trained in small arms, etc?
What I see of the military today is a majority are support troops, with minimal, if any training in marksmanship and such.
Good chance those support types were the Øbowel supporters.
“...What I see of the military today is a majority are support troops, with minimal, if any training in marksmanship and such...Good chance those support types were the Obama supporters.” [doorgunner69, post 130]
Another opportunity to correct mistaken notions. Thanks.
The growth of numbers of “support” personnel in the US military in relation to front-line combat troops is not a recent trend. During the Second World War, the ratio was six to one, support troops versus front-line troops.
A side effect of technological changes that have altered the systems composition and capabilities of weaponry. It’s also given rise to the “military-industrial complex” so many Freepers love to hate.
Love it or hate it, the changes aren’t likely to be reversed. The military establishment has become tech-heavy because that way, it’s more effective. A very American tendency: the only alternative is to revert to a manpower-intensive concept, which citizens would never tolerate. Doing so would probably lead to failure anyway - if the events of World War One mean anything to anyone.
“You continue pedantic non-sequiturs.
You discuss events that started well after the start of the Civil War. I’m discussing the spark that started the Civil War.
You spend paragraphs berating me. ...”[ctdonath, post 131]
Repeating what you have apparently decided is an epithet doesn’t tell us anything about its factual accuracy. And tells us still less about the issues under examination.
So - pointing out a factual error is a personal attack now? I thought self-named conservatives were more mature, possessed of more experience and judgment, and less thin-skinned.
It’s OK. I’ve been chewed out by some pretty high rankers. Some were borderline psychopaths; how they managed to rise so high did nothing to increase my confidence in the military promotion system.
The “spark” that marks the end of “peace” and the beginning of hostilities doesn’t mean as much as many citizens think: we tend to assume that if that single event had not happened, peace would have rolled on undisturbed, therefore the sparkers were a coterie of evildoers in need of disrespect and vilification.
Doesn’t reflect the real world, where two (or more) parties that enter into conflict are motivated by factors that build up tension for decades.
I confess to little sympathy for either side in the American Civil War. The culture and mindset celebrated by the Confederacy means nothing to me, but I cannot abide the bluenoses who appointed themselves the arbiters of morals and infected the Union with a sense of self-righteousness it had no business assuming. Both sides were looking for an excuse; the combative rhetoric, the election of Abraham Lincoln, the seizure of military facilities and supplies under Federal control were several.
Both sides overestimated their own capabilities to bend the outcome their way. Neither foresaw the mess they were getting into: especially not its drawn-out nature.
The "every man is a rifleman" was pounded into us. Good to know even the cooks knew how to shoot.
The current "drone" corps and what I see of tho other services makes me laugh.
You’re intensely defensive toward a stranger’s opinion.
You’re being way off topic repeatedly.
You’re getting very personal in both directions over nothing.
I expressed an opinion.
What do you care?
“...I may have an unusual view of the military than the current army, navy, air farce...” [ctdonath2, post 133]
“You’re intensely defensive toward a stranger’s opinion...
What do you care?” [ctdonath, post 134]
If you haven’t figured it out, I will tell you & everyone else.
It’s because I actually care about military effectiveness, and care still more about the lives of the people whose job it is to go in harm’s way. Hundreds are my personal friends, and I was privileged to make the acquaintance of thousands more.
Marines rank high on my list. You may find it trivial, but I’ve attended Air Force dinings-in where toasts were raised to the 5th Marine Division, in remembrance of their exploits on Iwo Jima in 1945.
Marines also concern themselves with doctrine; the other armed services do so only spottily at best. It may have escaped you in the uproar, but the military establishment is supposed to conduct operations jointly. This has been true pursuant to public law enacted by Congress, and numerous supporting Presidential directives, since the late 1940s. Your comments give no hint that you are aware of this.
Evaluating and improving systems, and assisting in the enhancement and reformulation of doctrine, isn’t simple and it doesn’t happen quickly. But without the intellectual/historical processes, the organized military isn’t anything grander than a collection of self-congratulatory, self-regarding, self-righteous has-beens. Luminous histories, honorable traditions, and long legacies mean nothing if they aren’t utilized to figure out where we’ve been, and where we might best go next.
If that earns opprobrium from the heroically uniformed, and the thin-skinned, it’s worth the annoyance and discomfiture. You’re not the first. If Marines are so tough, why are some so thin-skinned?
Obviously accuracy & relevance doesn’t matter to you, only the opportunity to designate an opponent and impute your chosen evil thereon.
Check #133 again. Carefully. Am awaiting your apology.
“...Check #133 again. Carefully. Am awaiting your apology.” [ctdonath2, post 135]
I did as you suggested. A couple times. Must admit I’ve still no idea of what you’re on about.
The organized military has a purpose and mission beyond giving the combatively inclined and the allegedly tough a place to hang out, one-up each other, venerate heroism and look down on the populace.
To that end, it needs to be as effective and efficient as we can contrive. Both attributes are occasionally sneered at by various parties. They need to rethink their disdain; by improving either, we can enhance national security, use fewer resources, and increase the chances of bringing those who go in harm’s way home safe, after the mission concludes. Success in that last endeavor is more important than just about all others.
Perhaps you are confusing “doctrine” with “dogma.” Even before we take account of the religious distinctions, they aren’t the same thing.
You’re so off topic you’re blaming people for posts they didn’t post.
My AR is good for 100 yards. My deer rifle - well I’m not saying. I can get 3 or 4 before anyone knows which way to run. Even then I can get 3 more. Dumb. AR are for close in (relative) high speed lead in the air. Deer rifles are dangerous.
I always wanted to build a guillotine. I’ll keep it good and sharp.
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