Replies

FLT-bird: ***”This right here is pure lies, propaganda and myth.
People got very animated over differences in tariff rates, differences in federal expenditures, federal usurpation of state sovereign rights, etc.
Tariff of abominations anyone?
Nullification crisis anyone?”***

Note my words, “nobody got enraged over small differences.”
The 1828 “Tariff of Abominations” was no “small difference”, but rather two to three times the rates in 1860.
“Tariff of Abominations” were the highest rates in US history, only ever approached in peacetime by the Depression era Smoot Hawley tariffs.
In 1860 US tariffs were among the world’s lowest and were as low as they’d ever been in US history.
Nothing proposed in 1860 would do more than return US tariffs to their historical average levels.
Those were still levels accepted in the past without threats of Nullification or secession.

FLT-bird: ***”Its really funny you try to equate Republicans of 150 years ago and Democrats of 150 years ago with Republicans and Democrats today.
There is no equivalence between them.
The Republicans of 150 years ago were for big government.
The Democrats were the party of limited government and states’ rights.
The two have exactly reversed since then.
What you spout today are lies and propaganda embraced by hardcore LEFTISTS.”***

Nonsense, because Democrats, especially Southerners, in 1860 just as today, loved, loved, looooooooved Big Government, just so long as ***THEY*** ruled it.
For proof, consider that Democrat Congresses & Presidents Pierce & Buchanan DOUBLED the national debt, then doubled it again — they were as spendthrift then as Obama today!!

Democrats then only became suddenly “strict constructionists” when **out of power**.

For more proof consider the 1850 Compromise which moved responsibility for Fugitive Slaves from States to Big **Federal government**.

So, there was nothing, nothing about Big Government 1860 Democrats didn’t like, except when THEY were out of power.
Then, just as today, Democrats went berserk.

I’m gonna stop you right here. The Morill Tariff would immediately have doubled tariff rates and everybody knew this was only the first step...the same Northern business interests that got this passed would be back for more. Indeed that is exactly what happened. Tariff rates were more than TRIPLED over what they had been in 1860 and let in place until well into the 20th century.

In 1860 US tariffs were among the world’s lowest and were as low as they’d ever been in US history.

They were far higher than for example, Britain’s tariff rates. They were also far higher than the tariff rate the Southern states would set if free to set their own rates....which is why they specified in the Confederate Constitution that only a revenue ie max 10% tariff would be allowed rather than a protective tariff. The Walker tariff rate was 17%. At least double the rate the CSA wanted.

Nonsense, because Democrats, especially Southerners, in 1860 just as today, loved, loved, looooooooved Big Government, just so long as ***THEY*** ruled it.

For proof, consider that Democrat Congresses & Presidents Pierce & Buchanan DOUBLED the national debt, then doubled it again — they were as spendthrift then as Obama today!!

False! It was the Republicans then who were for more federal power at the expensive of states, who were for more corporate welfare and federal spending, who were for higher taxes, etc. The Southern states at the time were against all these things (and still are today). Just look at their ante bellum state budgets. Look at the fact that the Confederate constitution severely restricted the general welfare clause, had numerous measures to control spending, required a balanced budget, and set the maximum tariff rate at 10%. If we were to take those positions through to today, those are MUCH MORE aligned with today’s Republican party. That would all be anathema to today’s Democrat party.

Democrats then only became suddenly “strict constructionists” when **out of power**.

For more proof consider the 1850 Compromise which moved responsibility for Fugitive Slaves from States to Big **Federal government**.

That was the deal struck because the Northern states were violating the fugitive slave clause of the US Constitution. Then just as now, both sides were quite willing to be hypocritical or to eschew principle if by doing so they could get their way, stick it to their political enemies etc. That should not surprise anybody. As I’ve said before, neither side was noble, righteous and pure. Neither side had clean hands. Both sides then (as now) were only too happy to screw over their political enemies.

So, there was nothing, nothing about Big Government 1860 Democrats didn’t like, except when THEY were out of power.
Then, just as today, Democrats went berserk.

There I disagree entirely. The Southern states and the Democrat party were at that time FAR MORE inclined to support limited government, balanced budgets, less federal spending, lower taxes and more decentralized power. The Republicans at the time were against all of that. The two parties have completely flipped on those broad positions in the last 150 years.