“D’nesh differentiates, from what I’ve observed the Southern vs. Northern democrat “
The Democrats didn’t split into a Northern and Southern party until the election of 1860. What drove that was the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854 that threw gasoline on the slavery debate that the Missouri Compromise had calmed.
“by covering Martin Van Buren, and calling the N. democrats the democrat “Machine” which gathered up the Irish (catholics) and the “immigrant” newcomers into a “machine” ” “
That doesn’t fit the time line. Van Buren was Andrew Jackson’s VP and was President from 1837-1841. The Tammany Hall machine had been around since the 1790s but it wasn’t all that big until after the Irish Potato Famine circa 1845. By that time Van Buren was an anti-slavery leader in the Free Soil Party. Most of that machine stuff occurred after the Civil War during the Gilded Age when the lone Democrat President was Grover Cleveland, a Bourbon Democrat to the right of most modern conservatives.
“Of interest would be to know the activist jewish (practicing Jews or just cultural jewish?) “
American Jews prior to the big Eastern European immigration of the early 1900s tended to be culturally very much like other Americans here. Radicals, anarchists, and leftists arrived post 1900 for the most part. Plus there were plenty of home grown WASP radicals that came from old colonial families.
“the timing of this 2nd klan rise also coincided with the post WWI anarchists in Europe and the US (Sacco & Vanzetti for ex, coal strikes, laborites, IWW, etc.). “
The 2nd Klan was a populist reaction to the big social and demographic changes affecting America at that time. If the movie hadn’t been made there still would have been a similar political movement, just without borrowing its name and costumes from a movie.
” Generationally, particularly in the South- Reconstruction was still in memory, as was the Spanish American War, and not to forget the Depression, and the ignoring of our WWI Veterans that culminated in the Bonus Marcher’s being attacked on the DC Mall by US troops. Shameful.”
The Depression came later, 1930 to WWII. The Bonus March, too, 1932. The 2nd Klan had already run its course. There were still Civil War vets alive in the Teens and 20s, and plenty of Southerners who experienced Reconstruction- my bet is that hardly anyone today could tell you what it is or its connection to the Posse Comitatus Act. MacArthur led the troops who attacked the Bonus March camp.
Thanks for your comments. I’ll have to re-look at van Buren and D’souza’s contentions about him vs. timelines.
Have always been wanting to look into the McClellan vs. Lincoln election, and just who were the “peace” democrats in the North who were a consideration of getting the Union to accept the Secession and leave the South alone (coupled with a demonstrable military victory—which didn’t happen at Gettysburg- even though the numbers lost on both sides were very large. The South could not make up the manpower).
Yes, it was MacArthur, junior officers also there were Eisenhower and George Patton. Long passed kin left a framed political cartoon about how FDR continued to ignore the Bonus Marchers demands, as Hoover did. A really bad episode in US history. The same kin began the first ever Veteran’s Affairs office, which FDR tried to copy and create himself, and get the man to come work for him. In polite Southern terms he told him, to his face, “absolutely not, not with your hatred of the surviving veterans”-having the inside track on FDR’s own intentions to get the Southern vote.
Pelham is one of the figures whom I consider a tragic loss. Very bright, with a promising military career had the war not broken out- a brilliant artilleryman who was enormously brave. Doubly tragic for being so young-7 years after he entered West Point. Along with Pettigrew, and Patrick Cleburne. His Brady ambrotype picture is so haunting— one can see the leadership and toughness. Friend’s g-g-g uncle served with Pelham right through to Kelly’s Ford. And with Stuart all the way to Yellow Tavern and then on to Appomattox (quite a diary he kept, and all 5 of the g-g-g-uncles were in cavalry 2 with Stuart and 3 with Hampton-and they all survived amazingly.
Pelahm: "That doesn’t fit the time line.
Van Buren was Andrew Jackson’s VP and was President from 1837-1841.
The Tammany Hall machine had been around since the 1790s but it wasn’t all that big until after the Irish Potato Famine circa 1845.
By that time Van Buren was an anti-slavery leader in the Free Soil Party.
Most of that machine stuff occurred after the Civil War during the Gilded Age when the lone Democrat President was Grover Cleveland, a Bourbon Democrat to the right of most modern conservatives."
No offense to Cleveland ("ma, ma, where's my pa?") at the time there were genuinely conservative Democrats.
Unfortunately neither Southerner Wilson nor New Yorker Franklin Roosevelt were amongst them.
But Martin Van Buren is the important point here.
Years ago he was identified by our own LS as the Founder of the Northern-Southern Democrat party alliance which ruled Washington, DC from the time of Andrew Jackson (circa 1828) until secession in 1861.
Van Buren's contribution was to forge Northern big-city immigrant populations into Democrat voting blocks firmly allied with the Southern slave-power.
Indeed, the Northern component included those "Northeastern power brokers" that so exercise DiogenesLamp.
They were business partners, political allies and social companions to Southern planters.
They loaned money, provided shipping & warehouses, their sons & daughters married and moved to start plantations of their own.
When Deep South Fire Eaters began declaring secession, in late 1860, those New Yorkers wanted to join them.
Point is this: long before D'Souza identified Martin Van Buren as the key player in cementing the Democrat North-South alliance, our own LS wrote books on it, and I'm satisfied the idea is simple fact.