Historically inclined as I am, I consider the Catholic Church to be the first Christian Church.

I was raised as a devout Catholic and received all of the sacraments. I was an altar boy in Bangkok at the little military Catholic church that they set up in the movie theater. I graduated from a Catholic high school.

But as I learned more, I found that there was a good reason for the Reformation.

Catholic priests ALWAYS have flouted the celibacy rule - from day one!

I had an epiphany as I sat in the pews of St. Marks in Kenosha in 1977. Something was wrong with this church! I can’t really explain it other than noticing extreme hypocrisy - the priest was giving a homily about caring for the poor, while a majority of people in the pews were obviously boasting about their affluence by wearing expensive clothes - expensive fur coats were in abundance.

OK, I was only 17 and didn’t know much history yet, but I thought something about the current Catholic Church didn’t add up. Something was off.

The feeling was so strong that I never went into a Catholic church - or any church - again. Later, the mother of my children - also a Catholic - also hated the Catholic church - she blamed it for her devoted mother’s suicide. We didn’t attend church, so my children never received the sacraments.

During this time, I read more history, especially about the Catholic Church. And I found out what the meaning of hypocrisy really was.

And then the pedophelia scandals hit the church. I was so glad that I had stayed away from it. My epiphany in 1977 had spared me a lot of grief.

Now I am divorced and dating (my ex and are I are still good friends). My children are grown. Now, I’d much rather go see Dr. Stanley or an Orthodox Russian priest (they can have wives) with my girlfriends than sit through the hypocritical ritual of a Catholic church.

I still believe that the Catholic church is the original Christian church - I just hate what has happened to it - all because of the stupid celibacy rule.

For other church historians out there, how exactly did the celibacy rule come about?

101 posted on 08/14/2018 5:07:34 PM PDT by EarlyBird (There's a whole lot of winning going on around here!)

“To be totally fair, the simple fact that there’s pedo priests isn’t a slam against the org as a whole.”

They know about them, protect them, hide them, and allow homosexuality to flourish at the Vatican under multiple popes.

The org is corrupted from the fishhead hat down.

102 posted on 08/14/2018 5:13:51 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion

For other church historians out there, how exactly did the celibacy rule come about?

Please see my post #93. The Council of Trent made it "official" for Roman Catholics.

103 posted on 08/14/2018 5:33:42 PM PDT by ealgeone

That's Post Of The Week™

The problem is borne (a) of the regional Seminary that feeds the Archdiocese, and (b) of that Archdiocese that feels they have so much territory that they can move abusers around.

104 posted on 08/14/2018 5:35:52 PM PDT by StAnDeliver ("Mueller personally delivered US uranium to Russia.")

Yup.
Nothing to see here.

105 posted on 08/14/2018 5:47:27 PM PDT by Gamecock (In church today, we so often find we meet only the same old world, not Christ and His Kingdom. AS)

Thanks, Eagle One.

So according to Wikipedia, before 1563 the celibacy rule didn’t exist.

That doesn’t sound right to me.

106 posted on 08/14/2018 5:54:18 PM PDT by EarlyBird (There's a whole lot of winning going on around here!)

To: aMorePerfectUnion

Yes, I know; the rest of the post you replied to says pretty much exactly what you just said in your reply.

107 posted on 08/14/2018 5:55:50 PM PDT by Luircin

To: NorthMountain

Go back to being an altar boy. You are brainwashed.

108 posted on 08/14/2018 6:07:25 PM PDT by Vermont Lt

109 posted on 08/14/2018 6:09:24 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion

Go back to First Grade. You’re incapable of comprehending what you read.

110 posted on 08/14/2018 6:10:06 PM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)

To: vette6387; Normandy; teppe

The preponderance of “churches” today are simply businesses. They all claim to be in The God Business!”

HMMMmmm…

Mr. Millet:

I don't think we can ever transcend Joseph Smith or consider him to be a valued personality, but now we'll move on.

I don't think you'll see that among believers in the faith, because there are too many other things that came from him

that are the reasons why we do what we do and we are what we are. That there are unanswered questions, to be sure.

That there are things that I'm as anxious as the next guy to learn more detail on, I really want to know. But in the interim,

it really doesn't, doesn't trouble me.

We're in the religion-making business, as you intimated earlier, only for a short time, I mean, compared to the

Christian church, which has been at this for a couple of millennia. We're about halfway to Nicaea.

And so, and so in that sense — I remember a very tender moment. I was speaking with — I've been invited

to the Salt Lake Theological Seminary, basically an Evangelical seminary, to discuss a book I had done on Jesus.

And they had read it, and they wanted me to come and just respond to questions.

And it was, it was a very enjoyable couple of hours.

The very last question that was asked by one of my friends there was this one.

He said, 'Bob, what can we do for you?'

And I, I wasn't ready for that question. I said, 'What do you mean?'

He said, 'What can we, as Evangelicals, do for our Mormon friends?'

And I, I guess my mind could have gone a hundred different ways, but what I came back with was this.

I said, 'Boy, I appreciate you asking that. I don't think I've ever been asked that.'

But, but I said, 'Try this. Cut us a little slack, will you? Give us a little time.

We're in the religion-making business, and this takes time. It takes centuries.

And, and trying to explain the faith and articulate the faith, that doesn't come over night.

We've really only been about that for 20 or 30 years.'

http://being.publicradio.org/programs/insidemormonfaith/transcript.shtml

111 posted on 08/14/2018 6:23:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

The way out of this is to sue them and take away all their money and real property, as you would with any other corrupt business, and jail their “CEO’s!”

Corporation of the President

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

STATE OF UTAH

COUNTY OF SALT LAKE

I, the undersigned, having been duly chosen and appointed President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in conformity with the rites, regulations and discipline of said Church, being desirous of forming a corporation for the purpose of acquiring, holding and disposing of Church or religious society property, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship, under and pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 3, Title 19, of the Compiled Laws of Utah, 1917, on "Churches and Religious Societies," and all acts amendatory thereof and supplementary thereto, for that purpose do hereby make and subscribe, in duplicate, the following

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION

First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

Second: The object of this corporation shall be to acquire, hold and dispose of such real and personal property as may be conveyed to or acquired by said corporation for the benefit of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a religious society, for the benefit of religion, for works of charity and for public worship. Such real and personal property may be situated, either within the State of Utah, or elsewhere, and this corporation shall have power, without any authority or authorization from the members of said Church or religious society, to grant, sell, convey, rent, mortgage, exchange, or otherwise dispose of any part or all of such property.

Third: The estimated value of the property of which I hold the legal title for the purpose aforesaid, at the time of making these Articles of Incorporation, is One Million, Five Hundred Thousand Dollars.

Fourth: The title of the person making these Articles of Incorporation is "PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS."

Fifth: The corporation seal shall contain the words, "Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," and an impression thereof is hereto affixed.

[Seal] [Signed] Heber J. Grant
President of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints.

STATE OF UTAH
SS:
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE

On this 26th day of November, 1923, before me, Arthur Winter, a Notary Public in and for said County, personally appeared HEBER J. GRANT, who is known to me to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing instrument as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and duly acknowledged to me that he executed the same as such President.

[Seal] [Signed] Arthur Winter
Notary Public
Residing at Salt Lake City, Utah.
My commission expires Dec. 1, 1923.

AMENDMENT TO

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
STATE OF UTAH ss.
COUNTY OF SALT LAKE

HEBER J. GRANT, being first duly sworn, deposes and says:

That he is now and for more than twenty years last past has been the duly chosen and appointed President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and as such President has been since on or about the 26th day of November, 1923, and now is, the legally constituted Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter=day Saints, a corporation sole; that under and pursuant to Section 18-7-5 R.S.U. 1933 he hereby amends Article "Fourth" of said Articles of Incorporation as now of record in the proper offices of this and other states, said article as amended to read as follows:

ARTICLE FOURTH

Fourth: The title of the person making these articles of incorporation is "President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." He and his successor in office shall be deemed and are hereby created a body politic and corporation sole with perpetual succession, having all the powers and rights and authority in these articles specified or provided for by law. But in the event of death or resignation from office of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or in the event of a vacancy in that office from any cause, the President or Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of said Church, or one of the members of said Quorum thereunto designated by that Quorum, shall, pending the installation of a successor President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, be the corporation sole under these articles, and the laws pursuant to which they are made, and shall be and is authorized in his official capacity to execute in the name of the corporation all documents or other writings necessary to the carrying on of its purposes, business and objects, and to do all things in the name of the corporation which the original signer of the articles of incorporation might do; it being the purpose of these articles that there shall be no failure in succession in the office of such corporation sole.

[Signed] Heber J. Grant
President of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints,
corporation sole.
[Seal]

Subscribed and sworn to before me this 18 day of June, 1940.
[the name of Notary Public not shown on copy of amendment]

(Original in State of Utah Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah)

ARTICLES OF AMENDMENT
TO THE

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION
of the
CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS
CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

A UTAH CORPORATION SOLE

Pursuant to the provisions of Section 16-7-5 of the Utah Code Annotated 1953 (as amended) relating to amendments of articles of incorporation of corporations sole, the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole, does hereby amend its Articles of Incorporation by adding an additional Paragraph V thereto as follows:

Upon the winding up and dissolution of this corporation, after paying or adequately providing for the debts and obligations of the corporation, the remaining assets shall be distributed to a nonprofit fund, foundation or corporation, which is organized and operated exclusively for charitable, educational, or religious and/or scientific purposes and which has established its tax-exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the undersigned has caused these presents to be executed this 19th day of November, 1973.

CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE
CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY
SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole

By: [signed] Harold B. Lee
Harold B. Lee, Corporation Sole

STATE OF UTAH ) ss:
County of Salt Lake )

HAROLD B. LEE, being first duly sworn, deposes and says: That he is now and ever since July 7, 1972, has been the duly chosen and appointed President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and, as such president, is now and ever since said date has been the legally constituted CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS, a Utah Corporation Sole; that the original Articles of Incorporation of said Corporation Sole were executed by Heber J. Grant, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints; that he, Harold B. Lee, is the successor in office to the said Heber J. Grant; that he, Harold B. Lee, executed the foregoing Articles of Amendment as said Corporation Sole.

[signed] Harold B. Lee

SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN to before me this 19th day of November, 1973.

[signed] Wilford W Kirton, Jr
NOTARY PUBLIC
Residing at Salt Lake City, Utah
My commission expires:
2-3-77

Articles of Incorporation as amended:

ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION

First: The name of this corporation shall be the CORPORATION OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS.

Fifth: Upon the winding up and dissolution of this corporation, after paying or adequately providing for the debts and obligations of the corporation, the remaining assets shall be distributed to a nonprofit fund, foundation or corporation, which is organized and operated exclusively for charitable, educational, or religious and/or scientific purposes and which has established its tex-exempt status under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

Sixth: The corporate seal shall contain the words, "Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints," and an impression thereof is hereto affixed.

112 posted on 08/14/2018 6:24:46 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)

Here’s a little bit of what I’m seeing:

Eighth Century
St. Boniface reported to the pope that in Germany almost no bishop or priest was celibate.

Ninth Century
836-Council of Aix-la-Chapelle openly admitted that abortions and infanticide took place in convents and monasteries to cover up activities of uncelibate clerics.
St. Ulrich, a holy bishop, argued from scripture and common sense that the only way to purify the church from the worst excesses of celibacy was to permit priests to marry.

Eleventh Century
1045-

Benedict IX dispensed himself from celibacy and resigned in order to marry.
1074-Pope Gregory VII said anyone to be ordained must first pledge celibacy: priests [must] first escape from the clutches of their wives.
1095-Pope Urban II had priests wives sold into slavery, children were abandoned.

https://www.futurechurch.org/brief-history-of-celibacy-in-catholic-church

113 posted on 08/14/2018 6:37:11 PM PDT by EarlyBird (There's a whole lot of winning going on around here!)

Celibacy was expected as early as the second and third century.

What idiots they were! They thought wives were were corrupting influences.

Ha! They should have known that little boys would be even more tempting!

114 posted on 08/14/2018 6:48:45 PM PDT by EarlyBird (There's a whole lot of winning going on around here!)

To: NorthMountain

You compare openly gapeople involved in Scouting with the racketeering of the faggot priests pretending to be pious and holy.

You are clearly brainwashed. Can you not see what evil men are running your church? By your denial, you condone this organized rape of children.

Show me where any of these other “categories” you state have nationwidechemes to pass rapists from one part of the country to the other?

Have you ever met a victim of these monsters? I have. One of them murdered a friend of mine who was all of 12 years old. And the church bent it selves into pretzels to protect this beast.

You go accept your communion from them. But every time they hand you the host, imagine where those fingers have been. And imagine the blood on them.

You are defending evil incarnate. And you cannot even allow yourself to see it.

115 posted on 08/14/2018 6:50:07 PM PDT by Vermont Lt

If priests could not marry, then any inheritance they would get would be transferred to the church. After a few generations, that’s a bunch of property.

I wonder how the Holy See has become so wealthy? They are no different than the mafia.

116 posted on 08/14/2018 6:58:52 PM PDT by Vermont Lt

The Church must be cleansed of unfit servants.

300 clergy and at least a thousand victims, and probably more...Just in Pittsburgh, alone...How many clergy are there in Pittsburgh???

How about the rest of the State??? How about the rest of the States???

If you clean out the perverts will there be any popes, cardinals, bishops and priests left???

117 posted on 08/14/2018 7:46:27 PM PDT by Iscool

Disappointment in the people you most trust.

I think Q said something about that...

118 posted on 08/14/2018 7:48:52 PM PDT by EarlyBird (There's a whole lot of winning going on around here!)

Priests don’t save souls. Only Jesus can do that.

119 posted on 08/14/2018 7:51:50 PM PDT by Mom MD ( .)

To: Alberta's Child

Tell that to deitrich bonhoffer

120 posted on 08/14/2018 7:54:07 PM PDT by Mom MD ( .)

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794