Posted on 06/04/2018 9:25:52 AM PDT by SkyPilot
Participants attending the World Meeting of Families in August can be forgiven their sins or help a relative speed through purgatory.
Pope Francis has granted a "plenary indulgence" for those taking part.
In Catholic doctrine an indulgence frees you from being punished for your previously committed sins or it can be passed on to dead relatives to shorten their time in purgatory.
Even those following events on TV and radio can achieve a partial indulgence as long as they recite the Our Father, the Creed and other devout prayers.
Martin Luther's opposition to the sale of indulgences was one of the main causes of the Protestant Reformation in the 16th Century.
The Sacred Apostolic Penitentiary, the Vatican body dealing with forgiveness of sins, said pilgrims would have to attend confession and Mass, pray for the Pope's intentions and participate in some function during the five-day event.
The use of indulgences in Catholicism is a tradition that goes back to the Crusades in the 11th Century.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
This too, like indulgences and penance, is not a NT teaching.
Nobody can save themselves. If you're in a state of grace, Christ (not your efforts) has saved you by His grace.
We're agreed on that.
What remains, though, is what Paul spoke of: "Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism." (Colossians 3:25)
No favoritism. No exceptions.
It's clear he's talking to people who are believing Christians: his immediate audience was the church at Colossae.
So what do you suppose Paul means when he tells these people that "anyone (including them) who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs"? |
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He's not talking about eternal punishment (hell) because these people are saved by Christ.
But there are two kinds of punishment due to sins. There is eternal punishment (hell), and temporal punishment. The eternal punishment due to mortal sin is now off the table, because they have repented and confessed, and been forgiven. But that's not all. There's still temporal punishment.
Think of the "Good Thief" who repented as he was being crucified on the cross next to Jesus.
He was given, as a free gift of grace, eternal life and the bliss of being with God in Paradise.
However (and note this) the thief acknowledged that he deserved his punishment (being executed) because of his crimes. And Jesus did not get him off the cross. Did he? No. The "Good Thief" suffered and died on his cross.
Note that he was 100% free of eternal punishment. He was going to Paradise. But the temporal punishment (his being crucified) was still there, and he still had to suffer it. And he said that was just, and Christ did not contradict him.
As Paul said, "Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism." (Colossians 3:25)
If salvation immediately took away temporal punishment, the Good Thief would have immediately stepped down from his cross! And not a scratch on him! But that didn't happen. He still had to suffer temporal punishment as a consequence of his crime.
No. The temporal punishment was still carried out. The Good Thief said he deserved that. It was justice. And Jesus was fully capable of putting an end to it instantly, but He did not.
Does indulgences get you out of purgatory faster ?.
Did you or someone else invent that fake scripture???
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Christians, even when they sin are no longer the children of disobedience...
Require it from whom? From everyone, even the saved and forgiven.
So much wrong here I don’t know where to start. Let’s go with false doctrine and blasphemy.
That has nothing to do with the false doctrine of purgatory which you folks believe happens after death and is therefore not a temporal punishment
That has nothing to do with the false doctrine of purgatory which you folks believe happens after death and is therefore not a temporal punishment
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You need to go back where you came from. Mess up your own HAHA *religion* with your nonsense. But leave mine alone.
koo koo :(
koo koo :(
But this is incorrect. This is not what I believe.
You're saying *I* believe that what happens after death is not a temporal punishment.
But it is.
There are two categories: eternal and temporal.
Eternal means everlasting. That would be what happens in heaven and hell.
Temporal means time-limited. That would be what happens on earth and in purgatory.
Purgatory is not eternal. It does not happen "in eternity."
(You tried to tell me what *I* ---"you folks"--- believe, but what you said was not accurate.)
Purgatory is temporary, as described in this passage:
1 Cor 3:15 (Berean Literal Bible (LINK)That's temporal. isn't it?
"If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire."
But even what you quoted supports what I said:
Col 3:5
"Mortify your members"
To whom is Paul talking here? Whom is he telling to "mortify their members"? Believers. Not "children of disobedience."
No. The temporal punishment was still carried out. The Good Thief said he deserved that. It was justice. And Jesus was fully capable of putting an end to it instantly, but He did not.
The thief did receive his punishment for his crime....on earth.
There was no "cleaning up" that had to be done in purgatory.
If the Roman Catholic position is correct, then Jesus had to go to purgatory to get "cleaned up"....something we know not to be true as He is the only One without sin. Hence, purgatory is not a biblical position.
No. We are not in agreement.
You might want to go back and re-read Colossians again. Paul makes it clear that the death of Christ has removed all of our sins.
13For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Col 1:13-14 NASB
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— Col 1:21-22 NASB
. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Col 2:9-14 NASB
1Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. Col 3:1-4 NASB
Paul isn't going to tell the Colossians they have forgiveness, been delivered from the domain of darkness, their sins wiped away, etc and then all of a sudden change his position in Colossians 3:25.
But this is where context is your friend in understanding the New Testament.
You have to read 3:25 in context of 3:22-25. Paul is giving instructions on earthly living with one another. His warning in 3:25 is clear....if you do wrong on earth, you will have to endure the consequences of those wrongs....here on earth. So to my earlier examples....if you steal, you may go to jail. If you speed on the highway you may receive a ticket.
However, those sins are forgiven....all of them.
The Roman Catholic says your mortal sins, and in Roman Catholicism, those are the real biggies, are forgiven....yet the "little sins" you do, you have to serve time in purgatory for those.
Think about what Rome is saying.
For adultery, forgiveness and you immediately gain Heavn upon death.....a little "white lie", and you have to spend eons in purgatory....unless the pope grants you an indulgence for doing something.
This is a completely non-biblical concept.
This is why Christianity rejects the Roman Catholic concept of purgatory and indulgences and mortal/venial sins.
Paul puts it this way:
23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23 NASB
You wrote: |
But that's just the part where we ARE in agreement.
"The death of Christ has removed all of our sins."
You believe that? So do I. We agree.
My haha religion is to be a follower of Jesus Christ saved by His atoning death and resurrection. If you find that funny I don’t really care.
Not sure how you get purgatory out of that but I have to admit I don’t know where you get most of your unbiblical doctrines from. There are still earthly consequences for sin but there is no condemnation or punishment from God. Christ bore it all on our behalf
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