Posted on 03/29/2018 10:01:40 AM PDT by MNDude
No, eternal punishment is not simply an absence of good and God - exclusion from God's grace and presence - but the experience of the opposite. And the Lord clearly described it as "a place of torment."
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 8:11-12)
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. (Luke 3:17)
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. (Luke 13:28)
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:41-42)
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:49-50)Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 22:13)
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:50-51)
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 25:30)
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: (Matthew 25:31-32) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (Matthew 25:41) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:46)
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. (Mark 9:43-48)
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. (Luke 16:22-24)
Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. (Luke 16:27-28)
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. (2 Thessalonians 1:9-10)
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. (Revelation 14:10-11)
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
Note: attempting to disallow eternal torment on disputable grammatical grounds cannot prevail since it is hardly tenable that the Lord's dire warnings, including hacking off appendage or gouging out eyes to avoid be cast into unquenchable hell fire, would have much of a deterrent effect if this simply refers to being burned up. Being able to indulge in decades of fulfilling lusts in exchange for momentary punishment would be considered worth it by most who seek to fulfill such.
Moreover, people will be cast into the same lake of fire the devil will, who shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever, and the beast and false prophet were still there after 1,000 years.
In addition,the account of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 not a parable, in which real names are never used, and which stories employ known physical realities which correspond to spiritual realities (i.e. "tares" = "the children of the wicked"), and never teach science fiction in this correspondence. However, if there is no such thing as being cognizant of torment after death, then for the first and only time the Lord would be engaging in science fiction. And it is also stretch to make the rich man in Hell correspond to some mere spiritual reality that is not that of the afterlife and Hell.
“I guess you missed that there was no interview”
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I can understand it wasn’t a formal interview, but instead a discussion on the occasion of this upcoming Easter. The official non-denial denial, for those who chose to lend it credence -
“”The Holy Father Francis recently received the founder of the newspaper La Repubblica in a private meeting on the occasion of Easter, without however giving him any interviews. What is reported by the author in today’s article [in La Repubblica] is the result of his reconstruction, in which the textual words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father.”
Well then, there’s no need for the church anymore, is there?
It’s amazing how the press group at the Vatican keeps bailing Frank out.
it’s their job
As you study for exams, remember its not the quantity it's the quantity. And remember there is no substitute for pure unadulterated bull
Dr. Schambaugh, of the University of Oklahoma School of Chemical Engineering, Final Exam question for May of 1997. Dr. Schambaugh is known for asking questions such as, "why do airplanes fly?" on his final exams. His one and only final exam question in May 1997 for his Momentum, Heat and Mass Transfer II class was: "Is hell exothermic or endothermic? Support your answer with proof."
Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law or some variant. One student, however, wrote the following:
"First, We postulate that if souls exist, then they must have some mass. If they do, then a mole of souls can also have a mass. So, at what rate are souls moving into hell and at what rate are souls leaving? I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the number of souls in hell to increase exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change in volume in hell. Boyle's Law states that in order for the temperature and pressure in hell to stay the same, the ratio of the mass of souls and volume needs to stay constant. Two options exist:
- If hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls enter hell, then the temperature and pressure in hell will increase until all hell breaks loose.
- If hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until hell freezes over.
So which is it? If we accept the quote given to me by Theresa Manyan during Freshman year, "that it will be a cold night in hell before I sleep with you" and take into account the fact that I still have NOT succeeded in having sexual relations with her, then Option 2 cannot be true...Thus, hell is exothermic."
The student, Tim Graham, got the only A.
That is a wonderful story.
If there is no hell, then how can there be a heaven?
Do I think it very likely is what the pope personally believes and that he expressed it informally to the journalist? Yes. Do I think the pope knew very well what he was doing and that his general points would be repeated? Yes.
But this is being taken to mean that somehow church teaching on Hell will be changed at this pope’s whim. This pope is a dangerous man. One of the biggest dangers is that he sows division. Thrives on it, I would guess. Soon we will read how “mercy” demands universalism. Mind you, put in such a way (by certain theologians) that Catholic teaching can be made to fit it. So what then of sin and Jesus?
Too bad they can’t fire Frank. Benedict XVI was pretty cool with those red shoes.
Unclean. Impure, Same same. The Greek is akathartos which just means not ceremonial pure. The context is demons which are the fallen angels. Jesus called them impure spirits and depending upon which translation, were always evil spirits aka: demons. So yes, they are the same.
“Soon we will read how “mercy” demands universalism.”
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I believe the point of contention here is what’s called “annihilationism”, not universalism.
Universalism teaches that everyone is “saved”, all go to heaven - Hitler, Manson, etc. - it’s all good.
Annihilationism teaches that those who reject Christ are destroyed by fire into non-existence. Though I’m simpatico with the basic gist of the concept Francis discussed, I also believe such things only drag the Church down.
I’m not Catholic, so I don’t have a dog in the Church’s theology, but the Church has brought much good into the world and I’m disappointed to see it have such troubles. I remember when it was a powerful moral voice in people’s lives and the direction of society.
That story may be more Urban Legend that fact-based:
http://2bornot2b44.blogspot.com/2008/06/urban-legends-and-thermodynamics-of.html
But it’s funny anyway.
Perhaps the Pope was being purposely shocking in his statement.
Tillich defined God as one’s ultimate concern and hell as eternal separation from God, not as place, but as a state of being.
Let’s pray that Pope Francis meant something similar.
I’m not Catholic, and do not pretend to know all that much about the religion. One thing I do remember my mother telling me was that the Catholic church charged money for those who lost loved ones, with the promise that the priests would say prayers to pray them out of “purgatory”....the more money paid would translate into the less time the person would have to spend in purgatory.
So anyway, if this isn’t a myth, and is really true, then wouldn’t the Pope have to refund a whole boatload of money to the people who paid the church all that money for nothing?
Right now Satan is being held by the Arch Angel Michael, however Satans’ spirit is allowed to roam the Earth.
There are demons who never had a physical body of their own and there are impure spirits who had a physical body and went astray.
Often there are both in/around the same person. Believe what you want to believe, but if your loved one dies and their soul hangs around after they leave their physical body to help surviving children or family, their soul does not become a demon.
If we are in a physical body, we are sinners and impure. Spiritual growth and God’s Grace lifts us out of impurity.
Children are created pure, thus we must become like them to know God.
I have helped many, many souls of abortions cross over as they were hanging on to their mothers. They were pure but lost and needed guidance to go home. They were not demons just because they were spirits or souls without a physical body.
Thank you for sharing a collection of excellent scriptures.
No Hell = No Consequence For Sin.
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