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How Poles Are More Vilified as 'Bestial' Brute Jew Killers Than German Nazis Themselves
Haaretz ^ | Feb 19, 2018 | Danusha Goska

Posted on 02/25/2018 6:27:41 PM PST by nickcarraway

Increasingly, ordinary Poles, caricatured as staunchly Catholic, simple-minded and chauvinistic, are positioned as the quintessential Holocaust perpetrator. That's far more comfortable than blaming 'elite' German Nazis

To many observers, not least those who are neither Polish nor Jewish, the highly critical press coverage of Poland's new Holocaust law which seeks to criminalize declaring the complicity of the Polish nation in the murder of Jews in WWII, appears both simple and clear.

Poles contributed enthusiastically to the genocide of six million Jews. Poles did so because they are staunchly Catholic, simple-minded and chauvinistic. Right-thinking observers must perpetually goad Poles to drop their defenses, acknowledge their guilt, and make amends.

Polish-Jewish relations are thus reduced to a calculation performed with black and white beads on one rod of an abacus. The black beads represent the bad, anti-Semitic Poles. The white beads represent the exceptional, prejudice-free Poles. A "true" historical retelling is only achieved when the black beads far outnumber the white beads. The token righteous white bead – Jan Karski – is the main concession to any semblance of balance. Karski was the Polish Home Army officer who brought the first eyewitness account of the Holocaust to Roosevelt.

The abacus approach dominates public discussion. But it is intellectually and ethically bankrupt, not just because it distorts beyond recognition a thousand years of Polish-Jewish interaction and the unique horror of 1939-1945. The abacus prevents historical clarity and ethical responsibility. And this debate matters very much in the era of Trump.

In my book "Bieganski: The Brute Polak Stereotype", I explored how people talk about the Holocaust, its victims and its executors. Many, though not all, of those I interviewed talked about Poles quite differently from how they talked about Germans.

Visceral vocabulary and animal references were prominent. This trend can be found in Fania

(Excerpt) Read more at haaretz.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel
KEYWORDS: germany; holocaust; israel; poland; theholocaust
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1 posted on 02/25/2018 6:27:42 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

I guess the abacus reference is simply an illustration that the author is using to make her well reasoned points. A good read, helpful to understand what is behind this new Polish law.


2 posted on 02/25/2018 6:46:05 PM PST by prairiebreeze (Don't be afraid to see what you see. -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: nickcarraway

Thanks for the post.


3 posted on 02/25/2018 6:52:44 PM PST by thecodont
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To: nickcarraway

The author’s conclusion reminds me of Pogo’s famous line in 1968: “We have met the enemy and he is us.”

I have seen this conclusion so many times over the decades that I have to wonder if the memory of the holocaust is not slowly destroying the west.

After all, who remembers or cares about the millions stalin killed or Mao or Pol Pot.


4 posted on 02/25/2018 7:05:34 PM PST by ckilmer (q e)
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To: nickcarraway

Wow. Someone actually comparing Polish Catholics, “heirs to two thousand years of intellectual tradition,” to “simple-minded” Genesis-believing American rednecks?


5 posted on 02/25/2018 7:25:32 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Vegam Yehudah tillachem biYrushalayim . . . .)
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To: nickcarraway

In a lot of things I have read over the years, I always had the impression that the Polish aspect of the Holocaust was a mixed bag.

I had the perception that there were Polish who collaborated with the Nazis openly and hated the Jews,, some collaborated out of fear of the Nazis, some Poles just didn’t want to get entangled and run afoul of the Nazis, and some Poles did get involved and had Jewish sympathies.

I have read quite a bit, biographies and autobiographies of Jews, and mostly I thought they had to distrust everyone because the issue of trust could be the difference between life and death.

I feel that same situation might be found in a lot of countries occupied by the Nazis.


6 posted on 02/25/2018 7:28:22 PM PST by rlmorel (Leftists: American Liberty is the egg that requires breaking to make their Utopian omelette)
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To: rlmorel

I thought the movie “The Pianist” portrayed a lot of those mixed sentiments you mention.


7 posted on 02/25/2018 7:30:25 PM PST by thecodont
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To: nickcarraway
The Holocaust has unfortunately suffered the inception of a cottage industry of expanded accusations. At the end of WW2, the allies found that the Wehrmacht was largely innocent of war crimes. Suddenly in the '90s, just most of those involved were conveniently dying off, all kinds of "new research" exploded onto the scene, articles and studies with such titles as "the myth of the clean Wehrmacht" and so forth.

This is the same kind of thing. The Poles, who after the Jews probably suffered more than any group during WW2, are suddenly, conveniently found to have been "the bad guys" after all. Was there antisemitism and collaboration in Poland? Absolutely, just as some members of the German army committed war crimes. But not at all to the level that is suddenly the dernier cri to claim.

8 posted on 02/25/2018 7:36:47 PM PST by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Flag burners can go screw -- I'm mighty PROUD of that ragged old flag)
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To: nickcarraway

As the son of a Holocaust survivor from Warsaw, I have some insight into this. I grew up in a community that was home to a lot of Polish survivors and my father and his cohort definitely have strong feelings that the Poles were very hateful towards Jews. Of course, Poland has a long Jewish history, some of it very good, most of it, not so good, mostly in the form of vehement anti-Semitism emanating from the Catholic Church.

The survivor view also came from many experiences where Poles behaved horribly: avidly ratting Jews out, refusing them shelter or means of escape, refusing to allow them to join partisan groups, refusing them any weapons or ammunition in the Warsaw Ghetto. From this perspective, you can probably understand (if not accept) a pretty dark view of the Polish people during WWII.

Having said that, I would not say the Poles were especially “brutal” and I fully understand why the Polish people resent the term: “Polish Death Camp”. Simply put, the Poles were no more brutal than anti-Semitic cohorts in almost every other European country during that time. Look up the Croatian Ustashi, for example, so brutal in their lust for killing Jews, the Germans were disgusted. And the Death Camps were Nazi German creations through and through.

I have also softened my opinion somewhat: as an armchair historian, I have done a lot of reading about the lot of the Polish people under the Nazis: it was a nightmare for them, as well. Their suffering doesn’t excuse the bad acts, but it puts them into a perspective against the other millions of Poles who did no harm, some who were indeed kind and yet suffered so very much.

If there are any Polish non-Jews reading this, I have particular sympathy for the way your nation was screwed over by the Allies: the French and British sat on their asses when you were invaded despite their treaty to come to your aid. Then, when it was all over, they served your country up to Stalin on a platter. People should also be aware that Poles who fled to the West and joined the fight were some of the best soldiers and airmen of the entire war, not only skilled but incredibly brave and willing to take the hardest jobs.


9 posted on 02/25/2018 7:45:07 PM PST by JewishRighter
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To: All

How about a white bead for every polish soldier killed by the Nazis in the invasion of Poland in 1939.

Also there is the first enigma machine captured by an ally in WWll. “The Poles were the first to crack Enigma codes, and when Poland was overrun in 1939, that team made its way West and offered its services to Britain and France.” That would be worth a white bead the size of a bowling ball. By the way my ancestry is German/Irish/English just so people don’t think I am a Polish “chauvinist”.

I would prefer to read somebody who knows what they are doing and labels their work as alternate history. And who is not a flaming bigot.


10 posted on 02/25/2018 7:47:33 PM PST by Holdem Or Foldem (If it is settled it isn't science. :))
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To: JewishRighter

Thank you. That was very educational.


11 posted on 02/25/2018 7:51:55 PM PST by generally ( Don't be stupid. We have politicians for that.)
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To: Holdem Or Foldem

I am puzzled as why the Jews don’t talk about the horrible holocaust by
the Russians.


12 posted on 02/25/2018 7:57:42 PM PST by ChiMark (America America)
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To: thecodont

Yes...it seems to be a common theme in both fiction and non-fiction.

I have always liked the Poles that I have known...eh. Who knows, not me.


13 posted on 02/25/2018 7:59:15 PM PST by rlmorel (Leftists: American Liberty is the egg that requires breaking to make their Utopian omelette)
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To: nickcarraway

Haaretz is the left wing Israeli rag that wants Israel wiped out more than the muslims do.


14 posted on 02/25/2018 8:02:52 PM PST by MarvinStinson
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To: nickcarraway
I question the origin of this upwelling of hate against the Poles. They were overrun and subjugated by the Germans, and the Soviets as well, subject to the same intense Nazi propaganda campaign as the rest of Europe. They were hardly sovereigns in their own occupied lands. No doubt there were Polish collaborators, just as there were in every European country. Note the enthusiastic SS battalions from Belgium, eg, and the enthusiastic collaboration of the Vichy French.

That there were antisemitic Poles is not likely to be doubted, as antisemitism was abroad in the European land, and long before the Nazis took over.

As noted above, Poles played a crucial part in the defeat of Hitler through their compromise of German codes.

Does this historical revisionism relate to the Poles resistance to islamic suicide? Is it a campaign by left wing crackpots to further divide the West? Maybe, just maybe, this dog should be let lie.

15 posted on 02/25/2018 8:44:03 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: nickcarraway
Poles contributed enthusiastically to the genocide of six million Jews. Poles did so because they are staunchly Catholic, simple-minded and chauvinistic

In 1967-1968, Polish Jews were caught up in a wave of persecution carried out by the Władysław Gomułka regime that led to thousands of them being expelled or fleeing into exile. The Communist perpetrators of this atrocity may have been simple-minded, but being atheists, they were certainly not staunchly Catholic. And those supine sycophants of the Soviet Union weren't all that chauvinistic, either.

16 posted on 02/25/2018 8:45:59 PM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: JewishRighter

I thank you for sharing your wise and balanced perspective. One can only hope that the Polish people, who have come through so much to embrace democratic freedom, will repudiate fully any tendencies towards anti-semitism.


17 posted on 02/25/2018 8:54:27 PM PST by tjd1454
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To: JewishRighter; hinckley buzzard
Consider this: The Nazis created these extermination camps, but they made sure NONE OF THEM were actually located inside Germany.

Why is that? Because even though on some level they though extermination camps were what they should do, on another level, they knew it was wrong and and they knew it would discredit Germany.

They would only decide to set up every camp outside the country as a way to avoid responsibility and push it on others. It is our responsibility, knowing this, to make sure they didn't succeed at this.

There weren't any extermination camps in Poland until the Nazis rules Poland and built them there.

Yes, there were bad people in other countries, but it was the Nazis who created the Holocaust. Even most Europeans who didn't care for Jews didn't envision or want anything like that.

Those same camps were intended to rid the world of Slavic people and others, once they were finished.

18 posted on 02/25/2018 9:11:14 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Very well said! Thank you.


19 posted on 02/25/2018 9:34:21 PM PST by Enchante (FusionGPS "dirty dossier" scandal links Hillary, FBI, CIA, Dept of Justice... "Deep State" is real)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Except American Genesis believing rednecks wouldn’t have killed 6 million Jews for they well understand what Genesis teaches about God’s blessing on Abraham...”I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you”(Meaning not just Abraham in his time but his descendants culminating in the coming of Messiah!”). Yup...just us “stupid” rednecks believing in God, the Bible and having fellowship sunday school picnics...not “2000 years of intellectual tradition” of which Poland spent being yanked between various countries and empires, having little chance to breath on its own as a free people before being enslaved again!


20 posted on 02/25/2018 10:35:05 PM PST by mdmathis6 (Men and Devils can't out-"alinsksy" God! He knows where "all the bodies are buried!")
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