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To: ealgeone

My lawless deeds are forgiven when I take them into the confessional and subject them to the power Christ gave to the Apostles: “whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain, are retained”.

If you think yours are going to be forgiven without you humbling yourself before the Lord in the Sacrament of Confession or, at the very least, perfect contrition, then you are fatally deceiving yourself.

And do Christ’s words to Martha negate the parable of the Goats and the Sheep that if we do not do works of charity, we will not be saved? Do they negate the parable of the sower that grace can be lost and choked out by the cares of this world? Do they negate John 6 where Our Lord says flat out “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life within you”? Do they negate Paul’s “fear and trembling” lest after he preaches to others, he may himself still be lost?

You are basing your entire soteriology on one passage as if there weren’t any other. Christ’s words to Martha are part of the New Testament teaching on salvation, not the whole of it.


490 posted on 01/30/2018 9:17:28 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud
Martha indicated she believed....she had faith. She made no mention of eating/drinking flesh and blood for salvation nor did He.

The parable of the sheep and goats, if understood in context, is clear. The goats never knew Him nor He them. They did not believe.

John 6 has been hashed out many times before so I won't go into that again. But to use your objection of one passage that is precisely what Roman Catholicism has done with John 6....and rather badly I might add as they go from symbolic to literal in the same passage....they've got it backwards.

To take your position you have to admit Jesus did not tell Martha the whole story. In other words, He lied to her.

I do not believe that is the case. He did not lie to her. He does not lie to us.

491 posted on 01/30/2018 9:24:39 AM PST by ealgeone
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To: Claud
My lawless deeds are forgiven when I take them into the confessional and subject them to the power Christ gave to the Apostles: “whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain, are retained”.

Your sins are never forgiven, unless you come to faith in Christ alone. No priest can forgive sin. Scripture does not say this. Nor does Scripture teach anything about a confessional. If you think yours are going to be forgiven without you humbling yourself before the Lord in the Sacrament of Confession or, at the very least, perfect contrition, then you are fatally deceiving yourself.

There is no "sacrament of confession." Made up. We have direct access to the Father to restore fellowship. Every sin is forgiven now for the believer. And do Christ’s words to Martha negate the parable of the Goats and the Sheep that if we do not do works of charity, we will not be saved?

It appears you really do not understand, do you? Do they negate John 6 where Our Lord says flat out “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life within you”?

The only thing negated is your interpretation of John 6. You really aren't supposed to interpret, are you?? YOPIOS and all that??

Do they negate Paul’s “fear and trembling” lest after he preaches to others, he may himself still be lost?

It appears you really can't get outside a verse and see context, can you Claud? You are basing your entire soteriology on one passage as if there weren’t any other. Christ’s words to Martha are part of the New Testament teaching on salvation, not the whole of it.

No. The entirety of the message to the Church is what we are basing it upon.

492 posted on 01/30/2018 9:37:55 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion (Q is Baron Trump, time-traveling back from the future, to help his dad fight the deep state.)
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To: Claud; ealgeone
If you think yours are going to be forgiven without you humbling yourself before the Lord in the Sacrament of Confession or, at the very least, perfect contrition, then you are fatally deceiving yourself.

On the contrary, if you think going to confession to a priest is going to get you forgiveness, you are mistaken.

God NOWHERE in Scripture, gives any instructions for what Catholics practice as confession.

Instead He promises us this.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

500 posted on 01/30/2018 10:23:06 AM PST by metmom ( ...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith..)
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To: Claud; ealgeone
My lawless deeds are forgiven when I take them into the confessional and subject them to the power Christ gave to the Apostles: “whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain, are retained”. If you think yours are going to be forgiven without you humbling yourself before the Lord in the Sacrament of Confession or, at the very least, perfect contrition, then you are fatally deceiving yourself.

Show us even one command or example in the only wholly inspired record of what the NT church believed (including how they understood the gospels) of believers engaging in confessing sins to priests as a practice.

The only command or exhortation to confess sins is to each other which is in James 5:16, and indeed God can show mercy and grace in response to the intercession of others.

James 5:14,15 is invoked by Catholics to support required regular confession to Catholic priests, but besides presbuteros not being Catholic priests, there is no confession manifest there, much less required regular confession, but the promise of forgiveness -most likely for sins of ignorance for which the subject is being chastised for (cf. Lev. 4:1-11; Luke 12:47, 48) - in response to the intercession of holy men.

Which corresponds to what we see in Mark 2:1-12, in which a man sick of the palsy is forgiven, which equates to being healed, as a result of the intercession of his friends who brought him to Christ, as we can do in pray. But no confession was manifest here and likely his chastisement was for sins of ignorance.

But confession to each other in general is exhorted in James 5:16, with the provision or binding and loosing being afforded to all of holy faith and fervent prayer as Elijah. Which I come much too short of.

503 posted on 01/30/2018 11:09:09 AM PST by daniel1212 (Trust the risen Lord Jesus to save you as a damned and destitute sinner + be baptized + follow Him)
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To: Claud
Christ’s words to Martha are part of the New Testament teaching on salvation, not the whole of it.

And them Rome has added even MORE...

537 posted on 01/30/2018 5:15:49 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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