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To: ealgeone
That's a pretty big change on the part of Roman Catholics considering non-Roman Catholics disagree with much of Roman Catholicism.

We disagree on much, that's true, but this is not a change. There was a controversy already in the 200s between St. Cyprian and Pope Stephen about whether heretics' Baptism was valid....and Stephen's position in favor of heretics' Baptism won out.

Baptism is not just a symbol but leaves an indelible mark on the soul. It effects what it signifies. It removes original sin and opens the gates of heaven.

If you were baptized as a child (say in a Methodist church), that had a real and permanent effect. If you had died the next day you would go straight to heaven.

That may sound like it contradicts "no salvation outside the Church" but it really doesn't. You were within the Catholic Church, just invisibly.

Now adulthood is where it starts getting complicated. Adults can commit all kinds of personal sins that will exclude them from heaven...Paul lists a few in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. If any Christian adult--Catholic or Protestant--dies with these sins unrepented of, he will be damned.

457 posted on 01/30/2018 3:29:43 AM PST by Claud
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To: Claud; ealgeone
That's a pretty big change on the part of Roman Catholics considering non-Roman Catholics disagree with much of Roman Catholicism.

Heck; so many FR Catholics disagree with their properly chosen leader!

What theological conundrum has CAUSED this mutiny in the ranks??

464 posted on 01/30/2018 3:53:41 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Claud
Baptism is not just a symbol but leaves an indelible mark on the soul. It effects what it signifies. It removes original sin and opens the gates of heaven.

And you guys are keeping the verses that indicate this out of public view; right?

465 posted on 01/30/2018 3:55:46 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Claud
It removes original sin and opens the gates of heaven.

HMMMmmm...


Revelation 21 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

 

 

12 And it had a wall great and high, having twelve gates, and in the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel.

 

13 On the east, three gates: and on the north, three gates: and on the south, three gates: and on the west, three gates.

 

21 And the twelve gates are twelve pearls, one to each: and every several gates was of one several pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

 

25 And the gates thereof shall not be shut by day: for there shall be no night there.

 

466 posted on 01/30/2018 4:01:20 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Claud
If you were baptized as a child (say in a Methodist church), that had a real and permanent effect. If you had died the next day you would go straight to heaven.

Hey Folks!!

Ferget that 'dead-in-Christ' thing and being resurrected at the last trump and sleeping in the earth.


(Probably skip puragatory; too!)

467 posted on 01/30/2018 4:03:23 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Claud
You were within the Catholic Church, just invisibly.

You've finally done it.

I am speechless!

468 posted on 01/30/2018 4:05:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Claud
Adults can commit all kinds of personal sins that will exclude them from heaven...Paul lists a few

A few; eh?

I guess the Unforgivable Sin has a few identical siblings.

469 posted on 01/30/2018 4:07:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Claud
If any Christian adult--Catholic or Protestant--dies with these sins unrepented of, he will be damned.

Could could I have EVER been so error prone to think that it was UNBELIEF that would keep me from Heaven??

470 posted on 01/30/2018 4:09:02 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Claud
Baptism is not just a symbol but leaves an indelible mark on the soul. It effects what it signifies. It removes original sin and opens the gates of heaven.

When was Cornelius saved?

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. Acts 10:44-48

484 posted on 01/30/2018 6:15:38 AM PST by ealgeone
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