Why you probably won't be seeing any kneeling players prior to this year's Super Bowl

American Thinker ^ | 01/16/2018 | Thomas Lifson

[SeekAndFind]

It looks as though NBC's plan to show NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem before the Super Bowl has been foiled.  You can blame random chance, player morale, or cosmic justice, but the defilement of our National Anthem before the biggest TV audience of the year is unlikely to happen.  Valerie Richardson reports in the Washington Times:

It appears that NFL players are no longer taking a knee during the [N]ational [A]nthem [–] namely[,] because none of the teams with still[] active protesters has qualified for the postseason.

By the end of the regular season, only five teams featured at least one player regularly sitting or kneeling on the sidelines for the anthem: the Seattle Seahawks, the San Francisco 49ers, the Miami Dolphins, the New York Giants[,] and the Oakland Raiders.

None of those franchises made the playoffs, even though four of the five did so in the previous season, leading to speculation about whether the take-a-knee protests wound up dragging down team performance along with TV ratings.

"By their actions, the kneelers brought controversy into the locker rooms, and this kind of distraction is always going to be detrimental to team cohesiveness," said Robert Kuykendall, a spokesman for the conservative corporate watchdog 2ndVote.

I have long struggled to understand why wealthy owners of NFL teams tolerated this affront to the taxpayers who lavishly subsidize their new stadiums, and to their fans who skew male and patriotic.  The most plausible theories involve their fear of alienating black players and their desire for acceptance in politically correct high society.  But more than anything else – even money, apparently – they want to be winners (that is, owners of winning teams).

[edzo4]

Then Let me post it for you I’d hate to see you miss out on Rush Limbaugh calling you a tool of the left.

Rush on Hannity:

As for the NFL, Limbaugh said that the left is attacking the sport because football represents things they hate, such as masculinity and patriotism.

“I do believe that the left wants to cause great damage to the NFL,” he told Hannity. “What does the NFL stand for? Masculinity. Strength. Toughness.”

He went on to say that on college campuses across the country there are actually classes about how to remove masculinity from men.

[discostu]

No flipping the bird is always the same message. Even if it’s group solidarity it’s group solidarity by flipping off some OTHER group.

But you just outlined the problem. The kneelers can easily say they were praying for justice. Now you’re stuck because they’ve just functionally erased the line between prayer and protest.

We still have a reasonable man standard. Problem is who’s being defined as a reasonable man. The fact of the matter is the vast majority of fans don’t care. Bring this fight to the courts and the kneelers will point to the 80% of fans NOT boycotting and say “the reasonable men have no problem with it”.

Nope. People didn’t even notice Colin wasn’t standing during the anthem until after the second game he did it. So in fact at the start NOBODY saw that it was misconduct. And most people just aren’t that upset about it.

[dsc]

“No they wouldn’t. Just look at your own reaction.”

I was willing to cut teams slack if they had no kneelers.

Then the Cowboys came out and knelt as a team.

“folks would be hammering the owners for allowing themselves to be powerless.”

I think you underestimate people’s intelligence. People understand about contractual obligations.

“Just look at Papa John, he took a side, then didn’t like who was agreeing with him, took another side, tanked sales, and got fired.”

Looks to me like his problem was more changing his position than taking a stand. “Sir, negative, sir. Sir, the private believes that any answer he gives will be wrong, and the Senior Drill Instructor will beat him harder if he reverses himself, sir.”

[discostu]

But they weren’t going to have no kneelers, so you weren’t going to cut them any slack.

No people don’t. I’ve explained these contractual obligations to folks on multiples of these threads over the two season and most people willfully don’t get it. Most of them take the position that anybody that would sign any document that keeps them from firing any employee any time for any or even no reason must be stupid.

Problem for Papa John is as soon as he took a position his pizza became part of the issue. Extra bad news for him of course that his pizza is mediocre, but that alienated some customers and some of the support for him on the web was from less than savory folks (let’s face there are people whose primary reason for getting up on this issue is the chance to say nasty things about black people, it’s a big world, some people just suck). Then he tried to back around to gain separation from the people that just suck, and wound up alienating the non-suck people that supported him. And if he’d just kept his fool mouth shut his only problem would be mediocre pizza and he would have alienated nobody. Instead his problem is mediocre pizza and managing to alienate both sides.

[dsc]

“No flipping the bird is always the same message. Even if it’s group solidarity it’s group solidarity by flipping off some OTHER group.”

Are you a guy? The bird is often used as banter within the same group.

“But you just outlined the problem. The kneelers can easily say they were praying for justice.”

No they can’t, because that is not what they *did* say.

“Now you’re stuck because they’ve just functionally erased the line between prayer and protest.”

No, they have just revealed themselves to be liars.

“the kneelers will point to the 80% of fans NOT boycotting and say “the reasonable men have no problem with it.”

Is that 70% saying that it’s not disrespectful, or that they don’t care whether it is or not? That dog won’t hunt.

“So in fact at the start NOBODY saw that it was misconduct.”

Until he announced his motives; then it became apparent.

“And most people just aren’t that upset about it.”

Most Germans weren’t that upset about the smells coming from the death camps.

Their ratings are down 25-30%, depending on what article you read. Seems likely to me that the number is fudged substantially, as they usually are.

But that doesn’t matter, as truth is not subject to popular vote. The question of whether they were guilty of misconduct is a question of fact. Player statements constitute a confession that they were.

[discostu]

In a public space, especially not a public space with 20 million TV viewers, there are ZERO good bird flips. Period.

Most of the players haven’t really given descriptions of what they’re doing and why. Also keep in mind there’s a big difference between what you say in a press conference and in court. You’re not under oath in a press conference and it’s not legally binding in any way. So yes they certainly COULD say in court they were praying for justice.

There’s no difference between them saying it’s not disrespectful and not caring if it is or not. The important part, if you’re going to start talking about reasonable men in a court of law, is that the vast majority of fans are not bothered enough by it to change their behavior, they will be the legally defined “reasonable men” and the behavior will be declared not offensive.

Doesn’t matter what they thought after he explained it. The fact that nobody cared means that it was NOT viewed as misconduct from the start.

The ratings are down less than 20%. Meanwhile the revenue looks like it’s going to be up nearly 20%. Ad revenue is actually up. The Verizon contract got renewed at double the price. And if you’re going to go to the “reasonable man” then you’re MAKING truth subject to popular vote. That’s is the point of that structure, the behavior of most folks in most circumstances. Player statements constitute absolutely NOTHING because they were not made in any circumstance under which they are legally compelled to speak the truth.

[dsc]

“But they weren’t going to have no kneelers”

That was not apparent early on, so you don’t know what I would or wouldn’t have done.

“I’ve explained these contractual obligations to folks on multiples of these threads over the two season and most people willfully don’t get it.”

How much of that is just bluster? Maybe they understand, but just want to complain about it.

“some of the support for him on the web was from less than savory folks (let’s face there are people whose primary reason for getting up on this issue is the chance to say nasty things about black people, it’s a big world, some people just suck).”

So, he was so afraid that the left would call him a racisssss that he turned tail and ran, offending people who are offended by that kind of cowardice. As I said, his problem was more reversing himself than taking a stand in the first place.

“And if he’d just kept his fool mouth shut his only problem would be mediocre pizza and he would have alienated nobody.”

A man, even a businessman, has a moral duty to speak out against evil. A man, even a businessman, has a moral duty to alienate the forces of evil. “Private Joker is silly and he’s ignorant, but he’s got guts, and guts is enough.”

Papa John didn’t display guts, and he paid for it. Now, you ladies carry on.”

[Redleg Duke]

I won’t because I won’t be watching.

This former Packer Fan has cut all ties with the NFL...PERMANENTLY!

[discostu]

By the time Dallas took a knee as a team (not technically during the anthem remember) it was no longer early on. By that point there had been kneelers (very few after the first couple of weeks, but still some) for an entire season. By the time Trump talked it was quite apparent there were going to be kneelers again this year and there were still some holdover from 2016.

Doesn’t matter. Bluster is the primary fuel of boycotts anyway. If people don’t want to understand they will not understand. Keeping in mind too there’s long been a strange prerogative in this country to denigrate the rich, there’s a good chunk of folks who WANT rich people to be dumb and wrong. Which is why the smart rich people stay anonymous and don’t take a lot of positions on anything in public, just feeds the innate resentment.

Not sure he was afraid what the leftists would say or just was shocked to find out the actual racists were backing him. That’s something folks need to get used to in this modern social media world, there are always going to be jerkwads that agree with you, try not to worry about it.

Kneeling isn’t evil. Stupid maybe, but not evil. This is a country built on the ability of the people to complain openly about the government. It’s one of the things that makes us awesome. And you don’t even have to be right. And Papa John didn’t alienate the forces of evil, well not JUST the forces of evil, he successfully alienated pretty much everybody.

Papa John displayed stupid.

[dsc]

“In a public space”

If we are to accept that argument, then we must accept that there is no good kneeling on a pro football sideline during the National Anthem, either.

“Most of the players haven’t really given descriptions of what they’re doing and why.”

Oh, I’ll bet they have, and I’ll bet it was recorded, too.

“You’re not under oath in a press conference and it’s not legally binding in any way. So yes they certainly COULD say in court they were praying for justice.”

You do not have to be under oath to betray guilty knowledge. Further, contradicting yourself under oath is a good way to get nailed for perjury.

“There’s no difference between them saying it’s not disrespectful and not caring if it is or not.”

There is when you’re basing the question of misconduct on numbers of boycotters.

“The important part, if you’re going to start talking about reasonable men in a court of law, is that the vast majority of fans are not bothered enough by it to change their behavior”

The question is not whether someone is “bothered” by it.

It is to be expected that anti-American scumbags will not be “bothered” by it, but their complacency is hardly a vote *for* the acceptability of the behavior. Others are deceived by the media. Some are just plain stupid. Many are black racists.

“they will be the legally defined “reasonable men” and the behavior will be declared not offensive.”

You don’t understand the reasonable man standard. That standard will (should) be applied by those who are in possession of the facts in a given case, either the judge or the jury.

“Doesn’t matter what they thought after he explained it. The fact that nobody cared means that it was NOT viewed as misconduct from the start.”

1. Glad to know you have interviewed every American and know their opinions. I know a lot of people who cared, and others must also.
2. When is “the start” for you? The first note of the National Anthem on the first occasion that Kaperwhatever failed to stand? Imposing ridiculous conditions is not a good thing.

“The ratings are down less than 20%.”

Can’t find the article I was reading. Should have saved it. Still, good job sidetracking us onto ratings when that is irrelevant to the issue.

“Ad revenue is actually up. The Verizon contract got renewed at double the price.”

Again, irrelevant to the issue.

“And if you’re going to go to the “reasonable man” then you’re MAKING truth subject to popular vote.”

You do *not* understand the reasonable man standard or its application. Please go read up on it.

“That’s is the point of that structure, the behavior of most folks in most circumstances.”

No, the thinking of a reasonable man in the specific circumstances of a case.

“Player statements constitute absolutely NOTHING because they were not made in any circumstance under which they are legally compelled to speak the truth.”

El wrongadarillo, Hoss.

[dsc]

“By the time Dallas took a knee as a team (not technically during the anthem remember) it was no longer early on.”

Certainly it was. Do you have a problem with the passage of time, too?

“Not sure he was afraid what the leftists would say or just was shocked to find out the actual racists were backing him.”

The actual racists? Both of them? Or are we talking about the people the media scum call racist but who are not?

“Kneeling isn’t evil.”

Keeling in support of a lie is as evil as the lie.

“This is a country built on the ability of the people to complain openly about the government.”

No, this is a country built on the premise that people have rights that precede any government, and which no government may violate.

I like to wonder if those include the right to knowingly and maliciously deceive people with the intent of harming them.

What do you think? Do other Americans have the right to knowingly and maliciously deceive you with the intent of harming you?

[discostu]

No it wasn’t. 2017 was the SECOND SEASON of kneeling. NOT early on. If you’re going to say it was then you’re moving into moron territory.

There’s plenty of actual racists in this country.

They aren’t supporting a lie. Cops shoot too damn many unarmed people in this country.

That sentence doesn’t even make sense. We don’t “precede” the government. 1st amendment guarantees us the right to complain about the government, as an added bonus our government does a lot of stupid crap to complain about. Including repeatedly and often finding cops who shoot unarmed people not guilty.

[dsc]

Okay, didn’t realize you had bought into it too.

I’m done here.

[discostu]

No we don’t. Again TEBOW. He kneeled for his ENTIRE career. so clearly some kneeling is OK. Bird flipping is not.

Bet all you want. Meanwhile, back in reality, most haven’t.

When the topic of discussion is why you did what under oath is all that matters. And since we’re talking about the contents of their mind you’ll never get anybody for perjury, it’s not possible to prove somebody did that for reasons other than they said on the stand.

YOU based the question of misconduct on the number of boycotters when you ran to reasonable man. I’m just pointing out why you’d lose that path. If you’re going reasonable man the question is 100% about whether or not someone is bothered. That is the ENTIRE point of reasonable man. At this point you’re saying the reasonable man argument is not the reasonable man argument.

Wrong again. The standard is applied by LAWYERS. If the owners lawyers tried to say “it’s misconduct because a reasonable man would consider it misconduct” that opens up the players lawyers to say “what about the 20 million average viewers that didn’t boycott far out numbering the ones that did? Are the minority opinion reasonable while the majority opinion is not?” and the owners lose.

Don’t have to interview anybody. That’s the fun part with things on TV. The ratings and the revenue tell the story. Since the ratings are down in line with the ratings of ALL television viewing (actually less than a lot of TV networks) a decent lawyer can show the so called boycott is negligible and this is just a change in how people consume entertainment.

The ratings are not a sidetrack issue if you’re going to appeal to reasonable men. YOU brought in the wisdom of the masses, I’m showing you what the masses ACTUALLY DID.

Not irrelevant at all. Speaks to why the ratings are declining and the reality of reasonable men. You brought in the wisdom of the masses, I’m showing the masses disagree with you.

I demonstrably understand reasonable men, ratings, chronology, math, and Full Metal Jacket more than you. You’ve been shown to be wrong. Because you are.

The owners could do nothing. You either know that by now or you’re willfully ignorant.

[Pining_4_TX]

Same here, but I wish people would focus on what their ignorant protest is really about. It has nothing to do with veterans or the military. It is a protest based on lies about what happened in Ferguson, etc. and it’s a protest against police officers. These jerks wouldn’t accept the truth about the police if they were faced with the cold hard facts, because it’s all about being a victim. Business leaders, team owners, and elected officials are scared to death of blacks and what they will do if they get angry. The US is being held hostage by a bunch of thugs.

[discostu]

Didn’t buy into anything. Another cop got away with cold blooded murder just up the street of me. Now nobody is protesting that because the victim was white. But the fact remain, an unarmed man who was complying to the best of his ability got shot and the cop was acquitted. And don’t forget to tell that Australian woman in Minnesota that it’s all a lie... oh wait, you can’t, she’s dead. But you can explain to the guy in Florida who was laying flat on the ground with arms in the air, he survived.

Too damn many unarmed people getting shot by cops. Don’t care about the demographics, there’s just plain too damn many of them.

[Varsity Flight]

No one should be watching a team from the birthplace of ExtortionCare.

[campaignPete R-CT]

Must be referring to me.
I am boycotting and still post on the gameday thread

[Jim W N]

My two cents on these Freepers who cyber-protest NFL threads like Bender 2’s NFL thread.

What’s an SJW? A self-righteous prig who thinks others should not be free to choose but should comply with their viewpoint because they think their personal opinion is “morally superior”.

Who are the SJWs on the Left? Pretty much all of them.

Who are the SJWs on the Right? Well FR certainly has some - they’re the anti-NFL folks who think it’s their duty to straighten the rest of us out.

Not all that have been turned off by the idiots in the NFL are SJWs and few, if any, of us on this Bender 2’s thread endorse the unpatriotic attitude of the NFL and some of their idiot players. The SJWs are only those who think they are morally superior and need to straighten out the rest of us.

[TigersEye]

Because I won’t be watching?