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To: butterdezillion; humblegunner
You use to claim that Rosa Keys was stand on the ground. Do you see solid ground under her feet? And isn’t she riding on a seat cushion?

And you claim the plane was sitting on solid ground. Do you see ground under the plane’s wheels?

You dropped the ridiculous floating manikin hand only after it was pointed out that Yamamoto was standing there. So much for your Cracker Jack image analysis.

The stars on the seal become dots when you reduce the seal to the size of the one used to certify birth certificates. The statute does not say “only” you add it. But it does say this “the reproduction and use of the seal shall always be subject to the exclusive control of the director of health.” It is the director of health who determines where the official seal is used. If he or she decides to use it on letters of verification over the registrar’s signature that is their prerogative.

164 posted on 12/03/2017 4:08:37 PM PST by 4Zoltan
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To: 4Zoltan

Here is the statute. Note that there are 3 paragraphs: a) defines the official seal, b) tells how the official seal SHALL (mandatory) be used for certifications, and c) tells how the seal may be reproduced in enlarged or reduced form for items like stationery, etc. The OFFICIAL SEAL itself always matches the definition in paragraph a. Any seal that is a different size is a REPRODUCTION of the seal, not “the official seal”. Here is the statute:

The official seal of the department of health
shall be circular in shape, two and one-fourth inches
in diameter. At the curve on the top portion there
shall be the words “DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and at the
curve on the bottom portion there shall be the words
“STATE OF HAWAII.” At the curve on each side portion
shall be a star. In the center of the seal shall be
the Caduceus, a winged rod entwined with two serpents,
which has long been recognized as a universal symbol
of medicine. The Caduceus shall be encircled by an
indentation, which shall separate it from the words
“DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH” and “STATE OF HAWAII.” For
illustrative purposes, a black and white drawing of
the official seal is attached at the end of this
section as Exhibit “A,” titled “Seal of the Department
of Health,” and dated November 1, 1988, and made a
part of this section.

(b) The official seal of the department of
health shall be embossed near the signature of the
director of health to verify commissions of
appointment of deputy directors and notaries public,
certificates, and other formal official documents on
which the official seal has been customarily used or
is appropriate to be used, as the director of health
may determine on a case-by-case basis.

(c) The seal of the department of health may
also be reproduced, in either an enlarged or a reduced
size, on official stationery, reports, certificates,
equipment, supplies, uniform insignia, and other
objects and items to be used or produced by the
department of health, but the reproduction and use of
the seal shall always be subject to the exclusive
control of the director of health.
[Eff 2/14/2005 ] (Auth: HRS §§321-9, 91-2) (Imp:
HRS §§321-9, 91-2)
.................................

The word “shall” in legal terms means “must”. It tells what MUST be done. “May” allows discretion. So in paragraph b, for instance, it uses “shall” once and “may” once. “Shall” is mandatory ( “The official seal of the department of
health SHALL be embossed near the signature of the
director of health to verify...”) “May” is discretionary (” ... as the director of health
MAY determine on a case-by-case basis”.

“The official seal SHALL be embossed near the signature of the director of health to certify...” That is MANDATORY.” That is the ONLY USE authorized for the OFFICIAL SEAL. Note that reproductions of the seal may NOT be the same size as the official seal - only enlargements and reductions may be used. Since they are not the right size to be the official seal as defined, they are NOT the “official seal” and are not authorized to be embossed or to be used for certifications (how do you use an embossed certification on equipment, uniforms, etc, anyway - the stuff authorized to have reproductions of the seal on them?)

We were told time and time again that SOS’s could not take any steps to verify eligibility if those steps were not SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED in the statutes. So all of a sudden you’re refuting that argument?

But regardless of that argument, the use of the word “shall” in paragragh b MANDATES the director’s signature near the embossed seal for certification.

A star doesn’t become a dot just because it’s smaller. The embossed seals have very, very fine detail. You can’t use the argument as if it’s a low-resolution computer graphic that mushes into a dot when you make it smaller. And whatever the registrar uses to certify is irrelevant to this statute, since this statute is specifically about the OFFICIAL SEAL of the Department of Health. Onaka’s seal does not fit the very definition of the OFFICIAL SEAL - in size or in what is on the design - so it is obviously something different.

The point is that it is MANDATORY for the director’s signature to be near the embossed OFFICIAL SEAL for certifications.


165 posted on 12/03/2017 5:22:45 PM PST by butterdezillion
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