Texas' Toll Roads: A Big Step Towards Open Markets For Transportation

Forbes ^ | June 30, 2017 | Scott Beyer

[DoughtyOne]

I appreciate that fact, but lets be honest.

The funds you paid out that should have paid for that road, they were diverted. They should have been used on that nice new road so you could drive on it for free.

Now they divert the fees and allow you to chose not to drive on it, because they diverted your funds and now charge you instead.

It all rubs me the wrong way. It’s a pet peeve of mine, so I address it.

Take care.

[TexasGunLover]

You as well. Of all the things I’m over taxed on, this one just doesn’t bother me, because I choose to pay a toll, and have alternatives.

[Reno89519]

If they go to toll roads or, like Oregon, to metering (did that ever go past proposal), shouldn’t they then drop gas taxes and other taxes that were supposed to pay for the roads and were instead used elsewhere?

[DoughtyOne]

You paid out money for both.

It should bother you that you are even offered an alternative.

Your money was spent on some mass transit item that may not even be in your state.

It makes me mad for you.

[DoughtyOne]

How would it make you feel to know some of your federal gas tax dollars went to help pay for California’s bullet train to nowhere, instead of your local highway?

[xkaydet65]

If you own a business and your inventory comes by truck the cost of tolls is in the trucking charge you pay even if you yourself never use a toll road or bridge/tunnel

[i_robot73]

>
Roads are a necessity of life and commerce and they need to be paid for, both in terms of actual construction and routine maintenance. Taxing those who use them seems like a reasonable approach to me.
>

True, but, IMO, the issue w/ HOW said taxes (price point) and construction/maintenance are ‘paid’: mainly, by crony Capitalism.

Govt controlled ‘bids’ w/ a high floor, union wages, govt-limited supply chains, etc. which bloat the project ever so. Add in the pilfering of the existing gas taxes for NON traffic wants/’needs’, cost/time over-runs (w/o any repercussions??) and maint. which (seems to) commence upon the completion of the 1st mile laid (IE: never-ending construction).

Least, around here, even if/when it gets done, govt through *again*, “Oh, we didn’t expect...We never took into account...”, as only govt can do. Allow 30 new sub-divisions on a 2-lane road; nothing for water/sewage/drainage/extra lanes or entrances/exits. Then, wonder how/why the congestion and public angst.

Govt & unions\cronies....hand-in-hand, picking the taxpayer pocket.

[TexasGunLover]

Your money was spent on some mass transit item that may not even be in your state.

The tolls are paid towards agreements to the road itself, which would otherwise not have been built.

[TexasGunLover]

If you own a business and your inventory comes by truck the cost of tolls is in the trucking charge you pay even if you yourself never use a toll road or bridge/tunnel

So is their employee healthcare, BBQ's and other costs of transportation. You are free to transport by helicopter, open your own transportation company, or negotiate better rates.

[TexasGunLover]

How would it make you feel to know some of your federal gas tax dollars went to help pay for California’s bullet train to nowhere, instead of your local highway?

I prefer to worry about tax impacts that affect me, like property, capital gains and federal income taxes.

The amount I pay in gas and tolls per years could triple and would have no impact on my family's lifestyle, while those other taxes are top of my list. For me, it's about priorities and scale. I'd prefer the changes where it actual impacts people.

[af_vet_rr]

You as well. Of all the things I’m over taxed on, this one just doesn’t bother me, because I choose to pay a toll, and have alternatives.

You better hope that those "alternatives" haven't had their stoplights and speed limits altered to slow down traffic to "encourage" people to use the toll roads. I've watched that happen in the past 10 years here in Texas.

[TexasGunLover]

You better hope that those "alternatives" haven't had their stoplights and speed limits altered to slow down traffic to "encourage" people to use the toll roads. I've watched that happen in the past 10 years here in Texas.

Interesting... I haven't observed that over the past 20 in DFW.

[DoughtyOne]

I understand that. The question is, “Why?”

They don’t have money for roads, because they divert your tax dollars to pay for mass (bus) transit, light rail, and other transportation projects.

Who should be taxed and isn’t being taxed?

Mass (bus) transit, light rail, and other transportation project users are getting a free ride. The dirty little secret is that these efforts can’t pay for themselves. They can’t add taxes on top of current losses.

So they come up with a plan to allow private companies to build roads, and charge you for the privilege of driving on them.

Then those who have had their tax dollars diverted, praise the projects because it was the only way they were going to get them, and what the heck, it’s only right we pay to use the road.

Oh, and just to be clear, we can opt to use the side roads.

Am I being unfair by pointing this out?

Are you honestly comfortable with this?

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Ending Davis-Bacon for federally-funded projects would help costs a great deal. Also, if your state is not right-to-work, work to make it right-to-work or a similar competitive model that is not in thrall to unions.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

If they use VMT, they should indeed drop the gas tax. Tolling some roads to build and maintain all roads, however, would merely create resentment among toll road users for people who strictly use free roads, paying nothing, so in that case, keeping the gas tax FOR “FREE” ROADS ONLY would be prudent.

[DoughtyOne]

Thanks for the clarification.

Then it’s okay if the federal government diverts 100s of billions of your states federal transportation tax dollars.

I don’t think you agree with that.

[TexasGunLover]

I am honestly comfortable with use taxes. I would like to see them applied more with the elimination of income and property taxes.

I am willing to pay more for faster and better roads. My neighborhood's roads are privately maintained.

Privatization of roads should be something actual conservatives cheer for. They allow for the price to increase to lower usage as needed to ensure flow. That means the free market rules the road. Driving is a privilege and not a right.

I am not concerned with the few dollars a year in gas taxes I pay in addition to the $3000 in tolls I pay because of convenience. The additional time with my family, far outweighs the few dollars difference.

The tens of thousands of dollars I pay in private school cost PLUS school taxes represent a material cost that is higher on my priority list to change than the tiny amount of difference gas + toll roads impact me.

[TexasGunLover]

I don’t think you agree with that.

Please reference where this is done for State roads. I could definitely be mis-informed. Given our gas tax is towards the bottom of the list of state's gas taxes, I just am not concerned about it from a scale perspective of my spend.

[DoughtyOne]

If you look at the total funds spent on roads, I think you’ll find a healthy federal tax dollar grant involved.

I don’t think states pay out all funds for state roads. The federal government chips in grant money to help.

As I mentioned, the California bullet train is a state project. The feds chipped in too. States apply for and receive funding for these projects.

Try think of it this way, since everything else is fine with you.

When the public pays out hundreds of millions of dollars in tolls each year, those 100s of million of dollars are pulled out of your local economy.

They are not going to retail outlets to help produce jobs.

Some of these concerns are foreign born. Profits leave our nation too.

[DoughtyOne]

You keep reminding me you pay other taxes.

Then you defend being tolled.

Don’t complain about taxation if you don’t mind tolls.

Tolls are just another tax.

You like taxes.