in the first few mags, many of the wounded were from pass throughs of the people in front of themI’m not enough of an expert to have a reliable opinion on what to me is the most important question about the technical side of the event.
Could one shooter, armed as he was with multiple weapons, but using only one at a time, from his range and elevation, achieve 600 or so hits on human-sized targets in the time allotted, and how many misses would be expected to achieve that many hits?
Accounts of combat with full-auto .556 and especially 7.62x51 have frequently emphasized the difficulty of accurate aim and muzzle control.
If all that was involved was spray and pray, it does seem like an awful lot of hits at that range.
It’s hard for me to believe that the answer is “yes”, but I would love to hear from many of the real experts we have here.
When you have a large field full of 21,000 people all packed in close together, it is more than entirely possible to do so. 7.62x51 (for example) has been known to pass through multiple people at the 400 yard range unless it encounters an anatomical structure that disrupts its flight. 5.56x45 can do it too, but it’s less common as the projectile tends to be a bit easier to upset.
It seems to me that you would expect more than 58 dead with a total of better than 525 "wounded". The number of deaths compared to the number of wounded doesn't sound right compared to other shootings.
I suspect that the media is counting any injury among the audience as "wounded".
They sure are dragging their feet releasing information on this one.
Full auto fire from a hand held weapon is notoriously inaccurate. But, this guy had apparently mounted these weapons on tripods, which would make them far more effective, particularly against an area target like a mass of concert attendees.
One thing that I admire and value about your show is your amazing incisiveness and the vast quantity of your thoughtful and informed analysis and information about a multiplicity of subjects. You are the finest of the mainstream pundit debaters. I think that your program is the best on TV. I NEVER miss it and extol it to all those I know. However, I am EXTREMELY disappointed about much of what has been said of the the bumpfire stock controversy. Much of it sounds has though it was promulgated by the ignorant gun grabbing left.
I am a 2 tour Vietnam infantry combat veteran, and a member of the Illinois National guard for 26 years. I served in a Military police battalion has a platoon sergeant and an operations sergeant. I was a certified Illinois State Police Firearms and Defensive tactics instructor, and a member of Special Reaction and SWAT teams. I have fired hundreds of thousands of rounds through automatic weapons of all types, belt and magazine fed, tripod and shoulder mounted, ranging from .45 caliber M-3 sub machine guns up to M2A1 40 mm twin anti-aircraft guns mounted on an M-42 self propelled anti-aircraft gun.
I am retired and spend one day a month on the rifle range shooting my AR-15 rifles. When this slide fire device was first introduced, the low cost and novelty intrigued me and I purchased one. It was a bit awkward to use at first, but in one afternoon, after a bit of practice I was able to get 90% of any length burst on a man sized target at 75 yards, which is close to the normal engagement ranges for truly effective full auto fire from shoulder mounted weapons. It is not as useful has a true selective fire assault rifle since it requires two hands to employ, but it DOES have some measure of limited tactical utility for anyone who practices with it. I never really considered this item to be a true tactical instrument, but I did appreciate the ingenuity and thought that went into turning “bump fire’ into almost as accurate a technique has I could use with a true select fire assault rifle.
In Las Vegas, this monster had the effective use of plunging frontal, oblique and flanking enfilade fire with a significant beaten zone against an area sized target of 25,000 people. That is what automatic weapons fire is made for. What would normally limit the weapon is the lack of a quick change barrel on an AR-15 when it begins to overheat. That problem was solved by using multiple weapons. In short it was hard for him not to miss.
Experts who have decried the effectiveness of full auto fire from assault rifles and other shoulder fired weapons are largely correct. Semi-auto fire is usually most desired and superior, and includes the advantages of duration of sustained fire to prevent barrel overheating and enhances an ammo expenditure and accuracy standpoint. Auto fire in an assault rifle has the following tactical utility, in the final and close in (100 meters or less) stages of an assault, to gain initial fire superiority, to break contact, particularly has a counter ambush technique, and to support by fire the maneuver tactics of another element. Leaders should be responsible to control the fire of their subordinates to maintain fire discipline, but in those roles that I have outlined, full auto fire is very useful indeed.
The battle has been joined. The anti-gun hysterics are in full cry. They will never be satisfied until they achieve near total firearm confiscation. The genie is out of the bottle. You cannot stop psychopaths employing bump fire methods unless you can repeal the laws of Newtonian physics. I realize that some sort of regulation will ensue in the wake of this horrific atrocity. But I don’t like it one damn bit.
If they do enact this ban, then any so called “compromise” by repealing the 1986 Hughes Act which caused the prices of full auto weapons to skyrocket. There is NO REASON for a legally transferable M-16 to cost over 50,000 dollars. You can be assured that any such owner will be thoroughly vetted by the background check that would be required to purchase one.
in the first few mags, many of the wounded were from pass throughs of the people in front of them