Posted on 10/02/2017 8:58:36 AM PDT by doug from upland
Opinion is divided this morning on Twitter among people who, unlike me, know more than the most basic basics about firearms. It’s not a matter of mere curiosity; as you (should) know, fully automatic weapons have been illegal in the U.S. for decades, which is why even mass shooters hellbent on murder unto death never use them. If Stephen Paddock used a machine gun, how on earth did he get it?
(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...
Absolutely! There is no mistaking that full auto sound.
I disagreed with him and said it was felony to convert any firearm into full auto unless the appropriate stamp was obtained from the govt......
Was I correct?
IIRC, last week a video was floating around of ANTIFA insiders from the point of view of an infiltrator, where it was claimed that ANTIFA members on scene had full-auto weapons in their trunks.
Given this, and last night’s gunman, how is it that the most unhinged individuals have such open access to the most dangerous of weapons?
You may buy one, with a $200 tax & background check, IF it was built & registered before 1986.
The ‘86 restriction means there are few available, most are long used, are extremely expensive (20x or more “normal” price), and so are rarely owned & used. You need money & competence to obtain one, and typically own it as an investment vehicle.
So...they’re technically legal, but practically illegal.
You are correct; additionally, possessing a firearm that you can convert by 'turning a screw' (lol) is known as 'constructive possession of a fully-automatic firearm', meaning that it is considered full auto no matter the position of the screw; and finally, your friend is 100% full of shit, because full-auto shotguns are very difficult for legitimate gunmakers and the firearms industry to make. Lots of research, lots of technology, lots of effort, and only a few full-auto shotguns have ever been made.
Sounded an awful lot like an older Vietnam era M-60 machine gun. There are a bunch of them still around, legal pre ‘89, but they run in the $15-20K range. Cyclic rate of fire around 600 rounds per minute. Audio recordings sounded like 50-100 rounds, a 10-15 second break to reload (that’s about right to lift the feed tray cover, reload and close cover, rack bolt back again).
Was I correct?
You're probably right. There are all manner of homemade silencers and/or methods, each of which is going to get the attention of ATF if you don't have the stamp (can you even get a stamp for a plastic soda bottle?) LOL
More likely, there's something more to the story of being able to convert by merely turning a screw. A shottie like that is probably going to get its own attention by the ATF since they frown on anything that would make a full auto conversion that easy (or even somewhat easy).
Considering the types of things they've cracked down on in the past...things you used to be able to buy but then they started going after the sellers (suppressor kits, ahem, I mean, solvent trap kits, or SBR/SBS that really aren't, but the ATF seemed to think so upon further reflection, even with ATF letters, etc).
Find out what shotgun that is and let us all know...we could either dispel the myth of an easy conversion, or see if it's the type of thing that's technically possible but is going to land you in a heap of trouble.
at 8:40 in that LV video sounds like an M60
not that hard if you think about it. Two per case, 5 cases, will easily fit on a bellman's cart. One or two trips to a truck or van in the parking lot from a room for 5 cases and additional supplies. Even if it took more runs than that, easily accomplished in less than an hour. Would not have looked suspicious at all, except maybe to someone versed in firearms. Then you might wonder why so many, but Nevada is where many, particularly Californians, take refuge to shoot and train with their firearms, so again its not out of the question that some normal Joe has come to Nevada to shoot legally, and is just enjoying a night in Vegas afterwards.
A competent metalworker can convert a semi to full auto without much difficulty. Cheap to do.
A competent metalworker WON’T convert because getting caught means a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison. Very very costly consequences.
Of all federal crimes, this is one of the most aggressively prosecuted.
I would tend to agree, 7.62, .30 caliber. This being said by someone on both ends of one for 1000s of rounds... Also would explain the number of casualties. What’s cover for a 5.56 is merely concealment for a 7.62.
We have recordings of the shooting. The interesting number is the total shooting time (seconds, not 10 minutes) divided by shots fired.
The slide fire I used wasn't variable, either you held enough pressure on the stock/foregrip, and it went quick (much faster rate of fire than I'm hearing in the video), or it stopped and went to normal single shot. I wonder if it's some type of hand-crank setup.
No mystery
Yep.
Crowd density means he didn’t need to particularly aim to hit someone.
275m isn’t far. With a .300 Win Mag, or any decent centerfire, you should have little difficulty hitting 1” groups at 100m with iron sights. .223/5.56 will be likewise accurate to >600m (6” group at that distance); it won’t “tumble” unless very badly matching ammo with odd-sized barrel.
With a large dense crowd viewed at an angle, we’re talking “broad side of a barn” accuracy - not hard to hit.
Another poster stated the rates on each. The 7.62 AK is flat rated at 600. The AR, not mentioning the round size is 700 to 900. I would assume the 7.62 AR would be the slower and going to some audio of each, it is tough to tell. I would have to go into some audio analysis software to compare the noise spikes on a time chart to actually determine. What I was hearing in the thud verses the echos was the sound, not so much the speed. There are two distinct noises of the noise for each round. What most were hearing were the echos.
To any event, we will know sooner than I can find the time to do the audio analysis unless someone else here has the capability. An old audio editing program called Tsunami Pro was good for this.
Maid service isn’t going to enter until the next morning after check-in. “Do not disturb” sign will ensure it.
Can easily move 3 long guns in a decently large case. Full auto can probably break several down into a duffel bag. 1-2 trolleys will move it easily. 10 isn’t that hard to move unnoticed in a place where people are moving lots of odd-shaped luggage.
1000 rounds, pre-loaded in belts or large mags, fits a small suitcase.
Upshot: nobody gives a $#!^ about someone moving the luggage needed for that. Maids are easily kept out.
Not a big deal. See #219.
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