Posted on 09/17/2017 5:15:40 AM PDT by Kaslin
I would say this. If one reads the Bible literally, when Jesus says “But about that day or hour no one KNOWS” He said that 2000 years ago. It doesn’t necessarily mean no one WILL KNOW when the time approaches.
No, I’m not standing around waiting for the rapture. If it happens, I’m ready. If it doesn’t, I’m ready.
But the passage that always gets me, doing back to Matthew 24:36 are the multiple admonitions to “watch and pray.” Now, if you “don’t know,” all the “watching” in the world won’t clue you in. If it comes “as a thief in the night,” why watch? It’s still gonna surprise you. Mixed signals there.
Personally, and I’m not gonna argue, I believe in layered revelation, and that Jesus was right THEN, but if He were on earth today, He might not say that.
Please read the title of the thread
Very good points, and that has been my traditional view. In fact, I still pretty much hold to it.
Where I differ (just a bit) with you is that I don't think that those whose hearts are yearning, watching, and yes - living for the Lord are justified in any way by "works." We are all saved by Grace, as you stated. Per the theory of the person who made that video, believers salvation is never in doubt, only the manner in which they enter the Kingdom (rapture, death, or endure to the end of the age).
Those who believe in a mid-Tribulation, a "pre-wrath "Tribuation, or a post-Tribulation rapture are the ones looking to be justified by works. They think they will be "purified" through the Tribulation. In other words: "Lookatme!" and "God owes me now!"
I don't know which side of the scale is really true. But I find it interesting that Jesus said this to us:
"Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."
Luke 21:36
Why would Jesus tell believers to do that, if they were going to be Raptured.....no matter what?
It doesn't seem to make sense, if ALL Christians escape. Something I struggle with.
Blessings to you metmom! You are a very wise and strong believer in Christ.
So now I'm greedy since I call out that September 23 prediction to be nothing but crap?
Spare me the lecture and get off your high horse........sheesh!
Moving the goalposts much?
I didn't call you greedy for calling the prediction of Sept 23 crap, which I am not inclined to disagree with you on.
But for your challenge to believers to justify their faith to you by turning over everything of their to you.
quote-Please read the title of the thread
I did.
I’ve seen ‘His’ capitalized when referring to ‘Him’.
That’s why I asked as I wasn’t sure whose schedule you were referring to.
Now I know.. Thanks.
Btw,’His Schedule’ is recorded in the Scriptures. He followed it.
Israel’s schedule in His Word, is His schedule.
He is the Word Made Flesh.
Literally. It’s all in there.
btw, Israel tends not to follow it today.
They would be blessed to understand it..
I am glad someone posted this on a News forum, rather than the Religion forum, even though we are getting a lot of carp from the nonbelievers.
It’s important that they know about it, more important than avoiding carp. Maybe at least a few will think again.
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Yeshua will return “in the spirit” to gather his bride for the wedding feast, after the tribulation, on the day of Trumpets in 2024.
Then comes the 10 days of bowl judgments that rain the wrath of Yehova on the Earth.
Then we return with him to crush the Kingdoms of men, and usher in the 1000 year demonstration of the total depravity of men.
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You really need to study Tanakh!
Yeshua’s statement told his Jewish disciples exactly which day he would return: The feast day of which no man knows exactly until it appears in the evening sky at dusk, the Day of Trumpets.
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“Yeshua’s statement told his Jewish disciples exactly which day he would return”
How could he have told his disciples exactly which day he would return, when he said only the Father knew the day and season? The Feast of Trumpets involves a day and a season.
In other words, according to you, Jesus said he did not know the day but the day was the Feast of Trumpets. Illogical.
I have maintained a complete Rapture viewpoint for my entire life. Two Scriptures have persuaded me otherwise.
Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
And the Parable of the Virgins:
—all 10 had lamps and oil at the outset (Believers with the HS)
—all 10 fell asleep (imminency of Rapture inevitably leads to non-expectancy)
—more oil for 5 (more available to expect the soon return)
Also, parenthetically — the overwhelming majority of believers today (preterits & dispensational) do not want the Rapture to interrupt the lives and plans. Why should the Lord compel those to come with Him if they prefer to the world in Tribulation with their families and friends?
The partial rapture would be premised on expectancy, not on personal sins.
Except that the bride is the church and the groom is Christ.
It’s our wedding feast the virgins are waiting for to begin.
We are the guest of honor, not those waiting for the bridegroom to come to the bride.
Again, you assume that all that are saved are the Bride of Christ. What if it is a fraction of believers as in a fraction of the 10 Virgins?
So, Joanie, who doesn’t want the Rapture because she’s excited to be going off to College; Michael, who doesn’t want it because he’s just married the woman of his dreams — are compelled by Christ?
So there’s no need to follow the Lord’s injunction here:
Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen (Luke 21:36)
Afterall, indifferent and Christians with worldly affections WILL escape! ???
These admonitions of Christ relate to watching, praying, and expecting the soon return — all things which the sleeping faction of believers (5 Kept Outside) is guilty of.
All believers have beeen lulled asleep by either those advocating imminency or the preterists. Now, with the attention on Feast Days, Hebrew idioms, Stellar software, and the Internet., some are awake and waiting with lamps filled on these breakthroughs. Gabriel told Daniel that towards the end there would be increased knowledge and the vision would be unsealed.
You are aware, aren’t you, that not all who call themselves Christians aren’t?
Well, if they suffer punishment for sin, then they weren't saved to begin with.
That's the whole point of being saved. They are saved from God's judgment as they have already been judged and have b]passed from death to life.
quote-Except that the bride is the church and the groom is Christ.
metmom, it could be argued the ‘church’ is the spiritual ‘Body of Christ’.
And the bride is hidden within the Body of Christ.. Just like Eve, as the rib, was hidden, in Adam.
Or hidden in Christ, when blood and water came out of His body when He fell asleep.
Maybe the church is having a gender identity problem itself- not knowing if its the female bride or the male body of Christ.
Pretty interesting the world seems to be having those sort of current events, too.
If He tells the end from the beginning, the church may think it’s the female bride of Christ -when it’s really the male Body of Christ- that is due to fall asleep.
a gender identity crisis.
Or the church may think it’s the male Body of Christ and Christ is going to marry a male.
a gay marriage crisis.
Since He is Sovereign, it can’t be an accident the world is seeing gay marriage become normal and gender identity crisis and transgenderism come on the scene today.
And lines are being drawn..
Like He’s telling us something.
Again, that’s only if the pattern in the beginning with Adam and his bride, and the pattern at the cross, are the pattern for His Spiritual Bride.
And that would mean the spiritual Body of Christ, the church, is not the bride.
But it has the bride hidden within it- to be revealed when the spiritual Body follows Christ to the cross and falls asleep.
Not sure that would be preached in too many places, but that pattern follows His Word.
That is so twisted.
You ought to stick to condemning believers for not following your loopy calendar.
You sound a lot less crazy that way.
Not sure I understand what ‘twisted’ means in this context.
Paul referenced first the natural, then the spiritual. That is what is being applied here.
If one is only thinking naturally, this may all sound ‘twisted’.
If one is thinking spiritually, this shouldn’t sound ‘twisted’.
If one follows the premise in scripture that He tells the end from the beginning (Isaiah 46:10), then what happened in the beginning (Adam and Eve) will happen in the end, at least with regards to Him and his Bride.
Adam had to fall asleep before side side could be opened and a bride could be formed.
Christ had to fall asleep before His side was pierced and blood and water could come out.
There was first a natural ‘Body of Christ’- His literal body.
Now there is a spiritual ‘Body of Christ’- the church.
First the natural, then the spiritual. According to Paul’s premise.
Christ died and was dead for 2 days.
The Body of Christ has been dying for ‘about 2,000’ years. (2 days by one count in His Word)
Maybe there are more patterns that the ‘church’ can’t see because it doesn’t know whether it is His Body or His Bride.
The patterns are in the scriptures.
Not twisting them. Just seeing patterns that He placed in His Word.
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