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To: metmom; EliRoom8
I do not believe that any believers will be left at the rapture, whether they are watching or not. None of us is perfect and making being taken in the rapture puts on works, when everything we have is by grace. Now, it certainly is feasible that those not watching will lose reward in heaven, but that is a different matter, IMO, than being left to endure the horrors of the Tribulation.

Very good points, and that has been my traditional view. In fact, I still pretty much hold to it.

Where I differ (just a bit) with you is that I don't think that those whose hearts are yearning, watching, and yes - living for the Lord are justified in any way by "works." We are all saved by Grace, as you stated. Per the theory of the person who made that video, believers salvation is never in doubt, only the manner in which they enter the Kingdom (rapture, death, or endure to the end of the age).

Those who believe in a mid-Tribulation, a "pre-wrath "Tribuation, or a post-Tribulation rapture are the ones looking to be justified by works. They think they will be "purified" through the Tribulation. In other words: "Lookatme!" and "God owes me now!"

I don't know which side of the scale is really true. But I find it interesting that Jesus said this to us:

"Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

Luke 21:36

Why would Jesus tell believers to do that, if they were going to be Raptured.....no matter what?

It doesn't seem to make sense, if ALL Christians escape. Something I struggle with.

Blessings to you metmom! You are a very wise and strong believer in Christ.

123 posted on 09/17/2017 4:25:36 PM PDT by SkyPilot ("I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6)
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To: SkyPilot; metmom; firebrand

I have maintained a complete Rapture viewpoint for my entire life. Two Scriptures have persuaded me otherwise.

Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

And the Parable of the Virgins:
—all 10 had lamps and oil at the outset (Believers with the HS)
—all 10 fell asleep (imminency of Rapture inevitably leads to non-expectancy)
—more oil for 5 (more available to expect the soon return)

Also, parenthetically — the overwhelming majority of believers today (preterits & dispensational) do not want the Rapture to interrupt the lives and plans. Why should the Lord compel those to come with Him if they prefer to the world in Tribulation with their families and friends?

The partial rapture would be premised on expectancy, not on personal sins.


131 posted on 09/17/2017 8:13:57 PM PDT by EliRoom8
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To: SkyPilot

“Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

Luke 21:36

Why would Jesus tell believers to do that, if they were going to be Raptured.....no matter what?”

I believe this passage was specifically referring to the approaching Roman/Jewish war and the persecution that happened around 70 AD, which was spoken about in Luke 21:20. Note the words “about to happen” which during that time wouldn’t have applied to the rapture, but to a different event. So rest easy knowing that when Christ returns for the church, your reservation is already booked for the party.


161 posted on 09/18/2017 10:48:02 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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