Replies

jeffersondem: "Supposed in-group members influencing each other to arrive at common out-group stereotype.
Professionals say it is combative messaging designed to disqualify opponents."

rockrr: "Oh, I should also mention that trolls are big on virtue signaling."

I noticed last time when jeffersondem got his panties all twisted over alleged "virtue signaling", which I never heard of until recently, still don't know what it is, or why supposedly a bad thing.
This time he leaves off the name, but gives us a fancy definition.

And before we go further, let's notice that of the many real historical issues jeffersondem might have responded to, this is the one, an apparent sociological non-issue, he chose.

So what is "virtue signaling" and is it a bad thing?
Well, in the military they use codes call "I.F.F." -- Identify Friend or Foe.
From simple pass words (challenge: "Halt! Who goes there, Davy" response: "Crockett, it's me Charlie") to sophisticated radio codes between aircraft, they all say basically the same thing: "don't shoot, I'm your friend".
Now in wide-ranging internet debates over many subjects from different perspectives it can get hard to tell whose opinions we support, and whose we don't.
So, some IFF might be necessary just to prevent debate friendly fire "fratricide".

But of course debate-fratricide is exactly what jeffersondem desires foremost.
Indeed, you may have noticed that jeffersondem is never in his glory so much as when he can quote supposedly opposing opinions of his opponents and say, in effect: you two fight it out.
Now, if debate-fratricide is your goal, then of course, IFF is your enemy.
So, we can well imagine: "I know, let's give it a name that people will naturally shy away from, let's call it 'virtue signaling' and we'll accuse people of it until they quiver and shake with fear, stop doing it and aim their rhetorical guns at each other.
Yeah! 'virtue signaling', that's the ticket!"

Bottom line: I still don't know what "troll" means and so far "virtue signaling" seems to mean, despite jeffersondem's fancy definition, basically little more than IFF.

You disagree?

I noticed last time when jeffersondem got his panties all twisted over alleged "virtue signaling", which I never heard of until recently, still don't know what it is, or why supposedly a bad thing.

You are out of touch. "Virtue Signaling" has been a term that has been employed for at least the last eight years. It means someone who is making public pronouncements to make their peers aware of how "virtuous" they are. It is not unlike the Pharisees prayer.

"9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted."

George Clooney has done all sorts of "Virtue Signaling" about refugees, but he has abandoned his mansion in Italy when it became surrounded by refugees, and now he has made a statement about moving back to LA from London because he now considers the city too dangerous. Of course he hasn't taken in any refugees himself, he just gets on various television shows and demands that governments take them in. He is showing how "virtuous" he is by "caring" about the refugees, so long as it doesn't put him out very much.

It also applies to people who want to argue the civil war was "just", because "slavery was bad." They can show how "virtuous" they are by condemning slavery, based on the lie that "slavery" was the reason the North invaded the South.

Bottom line: I still don't know what "troll" means and so far "virtue signaling" seems to mean, despite jeffersondem's fancy definition, basically little more than IFF.

You disagree?

"Virtue Signaling" goes beyond IFF. Yes, it does that too, but it also spreads propaganda. It reinforces the meme that there are a lot of people who believe this way, and therefore other people should also believe this way because there are so many people who do.

What are known as "logical fallacies" such as "Argumentum ad populum" (I am correct because so many people agree with me) , may be inherently flawed from a reasoning point of view, but they resonate with humans who rely mosly on emotion to decide how they feel about something.

The argument that a lot of people agree with me is a very powerful argument from the perspective of persuading people, even though it is a nonsense argument from the perspective of rational people.

"Virtue Signaling" performs that function as well as helping like minded people identify each other.

“So what is “virtue signaling” and is it a bad thing?
Well, in the military they use codes call “I.F.F.” — Identify Friend or Foe. From simple pass words (challenge: “Halt! Who goes there, Davy”response: “Crockett, it's me Charlie”) to sophisticated radio codes between aircraft, they all say basically the same thing: “don't shoot, I'm your friend”.Now in wide-ranging internet debates over many subjects from different perspectives it can get hard to tell whose opinions we support, and whose we don't. So, some IFF might be necessary just to prevent debate friendlyfire “fratricide”.”

Time for a process check.

This thread is titled “Will Attacks on Monuments Include Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan?”

Brother Joe, your last, on target, post to me was #204. You gallantly, but wrongheadedly, defended Sherman's genocidal aspirations.

Since, you have leveled a personal attack and folded in some references to Shakespeare and roses. Now IFF to add distraction to diversion.

Yes, I did participate (post 225) by taking downtown the hanging meatball you served. It was a whim on my part.

To the point: have you resigned? It looked like you were headed to checkmate before the board got bumped.

If you are still in the discussion and have a hankering to defend extermination talk, start with this:

“Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians! ... I have come to kill Indians, and believe it is right and honorable to use any means under God’s heaven to kill Indians. ... Kill and scalp all, big and little; nits make lice.”