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How does the chain of command work on a USN Combat Vessel for Emergency Helm Correction?
beebuster News Bureau | August 23, 2017 | beebuster000

Posted on 08/23/2017 7:05:21 AM PDT by beebuster2000

Can a Freeper with experience "weigh" in please?

I am beginning to think the common problem in the recent USN accidents is a totally calcified chain of command where no one has the authority to take action in a moment of crisis. someone knows there is a problem but has to ask someone who has to ask someone for permission to act.

Isn't there ONE OFFICER on deck with the total and absolute responsibility and authority to alter course in real time to avoid collisions? Or is there no one person until way up the chain who can make a decision ?


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: usn
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To: GOPJ

ICBMs do not use GPS. ICBMs predate the GPS network by many years. GPS updates are too slow. ICBMs use inertial guidance systems exclusively.


41 posted on 08/23/2017 10:56:07 AM PDT by GingisK
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To: Bruce Campbells Chin

I have a feeling in today’s Navy lots of Sailors are afraid to sneeze without direct permission.


42 posted on 08/23/2017 11:00:58 AM PDT by Terry Mross (Liver spots And blood thinners.)
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To: Bonemaker
First, they must fire all of Obamas politically correct bootlicking admirals and generals.

The same ones who agreed that they would follow and issue orders to fire on Americans, in order to be promoted?

43 posted on 08/23/2017 11:03:45 AM PDT by JimRed ( TERM LIMITS, NOW! Building the Wall! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
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To: null and void
People don't seem to understand how GPS works. Consider this explanation: GPS satellites synchronize with each other so that they are at the same time mark. This takes into account the time needed between units. The satellites then simply broadcast a very short signal that carries a time signature. They also broadcast tables used in navigation computations. The receivers receive the time-laden pips and then compute the distance to each satellite. The aforementioned tables carry time-dependent information regarding the orbital positions of the satellites. The intersections of the imaginary spheres given by the distance to each satellite are computed. The computed intersections of those spheres give the position and altitude fix of the receiver.

The messages from the satellites are protected with long cyclic redundancy checks in order to prevent garbled messages from contributing to the calculations.

In short, GPS satellites do not tell you your position. They tell you their positions. From that the receiver computes its own position.

Spoofing would require replacing the temporal tables and time fix transmissions from multiple satellites in such a manner to seem reasonable to the receiver's algorithm. That is so unlikely. Jamming the signals altogether would be more likely, merely causing fallback to inertial navigation.

44 posted on 08/23/2017 11:11:49 AM PDT by GingisK
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To: GingisK

VERY bad news. It means the receivers are buggered to give false results near Russian targets.

DEEP sabotage, perhaps at the chip level*, Perhaps at the software vendor level**, perhaps at the factory/depot level***.

* Chinese manufactured chips?
** Software outsourced to who, Russia, India, China?
*** Native traitors?


45 posted on 08/23/2017 11:52:07 AM PDT by null and void (You can only see into the future as far as you can see into your past.)
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To: null and void
No, some other causes entirely. Not looking out of the window, not turning the ship to avoid collision, you know, boating safety in general.

You don't believe that not knowing your your exact position on the globe prevents your radar from seeing a ship that big, do you? Is not knowing your position something that would keep someone from looking out of the window? Do you think that some alarm wouldn't be triggered if the GPS disagreed with the inertial guidance by a worrisome factor? Do you even think that the GPS gives our ships the location of other ships?

In short, something else is entirely amiss. I hope it is not just gross incompetence, but it does look that way to me. Even if those ships are deliberately ramming ours ... the destroyers are fast and nimble. There is no way a freighter or a taker could hit one without poking out the eyes of everyone on our ship.

46 posted on 08/23/2017 2:07:35 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: GingisK

My concern is more that a GPS guided weapon, whether a smart bomb, a cruise missile, or an incoming ICBM warhead could already be systematically diverted away from its target.

No one to look out the window on any of those platforms...


47 posted on 08/23/2017 2:27:00 PM PDT by null and void (You can only see into the future as far as you can see into your past.)
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To: GingisK

GPS is based on a more advanced system...


48 posted on 08/23/2017 2:35:48 PM PDT by GOPJ (Trump stood behind Hillary for 47 seconds in a debate - now she wants an eternal pity party.)
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To: null and void
I think the best that could be expected in that case would be for such a weapon to miss its target. It would be very nearly impossible to send out multiple time markers for the purpose of substituting a current fix. Coordinated microsecond precision between multiple markers would be needed to spoof any fix, especially since the position of the target being spoofed would have to be known to within a meter. Besides, the timer markers, ephimeris/almanac data for the military is seriously encrypted and transmitted with spread spectrum techniques.

I don't think GPS can be hacked. It could certainly be jammed.

49 posted on 08/23/2017 2:45:50 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: Nailbiter

Sonar ping


50 posted on 08/23/2017 2:49:44 PM PDT by IncPen (Progressivism is in perpetual need of an enemy against which to refresh its outrage.)
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To: GOPJ

Yes it is. ICBMs were build long before GPS. ICBMs also must be self-contained.


51 posted on 08/23/2017 3:37:00 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: GingisK

Unless the [Chinese made COTS] GPS chips themselves were boogered to take valid GPS data and report an offset position only when certain conditions were met.

Approach a given endpoint at a certain velocity and the chip subtly offsets the reported position to cause a miss, for example.


52 posted on 08/23/2017 3:41:42 PM PDT by null and void (You can only see into the future as far as you can see into your past.)
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To: null and void
ICBMs do not use GPS. Cruise missiles do, but ICBMs do not.

I don't think the military purchases hardware from the Chinese, nor would they allow their vendors to do so.

53 posted on 08/23/2017 3:51:21 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: GingisK
They aren't supposed to use Chinese chips.
54 posted on 08/23/2017 4:01:33 PM PDT by null and void (You can only see into the future as far as you can see into your past.)
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To: null and void

Military procurement is a very careful process.


55 posted on 08/23/2017 4:03:48 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: null and void

Besides, this is not a GPS problem. Not by a long shot.


56 posted on 08/23/2017 4:04:34 PM PDT by GingisK
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To: GingisK

Yeah. I know. I used to work for a guy who deliberately and systematically falsified test results.


57 posted on 08/23/2017 5:16:03 PM PDT by null and void (You can only see into the future as far as you can see into your past.)
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To: notdownwidems

At this point I haven’t a clue and won’t start a theory - just saying that it is an unlikely coincidence and I can’t imagine that in a imminent collision situation nobody has authority to take evasive actions.


58 posted on 08/24/2017 2:21:20 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: TexasGator

from the wsj today:

Ships are obliged to keep their Automatic Identification System on. The AIS gives inland stations and other vessels live information about a ship’s position, speed and course.

Global marine regulator, the International Maritime Organization, requires AIS to be fitted aboard all oceangoing vessels of 300 tonnes or more, and all passenger ships regardless of size.

Navy vessels may turn off their AIS when they are on a mission. Otherwise, captains are advised to keep it on.

Ships on the right always have the right of way. Ships on the left must yield to allow them to cross their path.


59 posted on 08/25/2017 4:56:51 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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