Already been here awhile arguing with someone who thinks they know what is going on, but actually doesn't.
Posted on 08/23/2017 3:47:18 AM PDT by GregNH
Former Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, a Republican candidate for US Senate, has cast doubt on former President Barack Obama's citizenship repeatedly and as recently as December 2016, fueling the debunked "birther" movement that sought to delegitimize Obama's presidency.
Moore, who started questioning the legitimacy of Obama's citizenship back in 2008, last year told a meeting of the Constitution Party that he personally did not believe Obama was a natural-born citizen. "My opinion is, there is a big question about that," Moore said when asked how he defines natural-born citizen as it relates to qualifications for president. CNN's KFile reviewed video from the event.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Thanks for that clarification.
Thanks. It's very seldom I get any encouragement. :)
Where you get the patience idk.
I'm stubborn and contrarian. :)
Stubbornness has got to help, but the facts help more—and you have them.
According to you. According to you, two of the most respected Constitutional scholars of the time were lying about the meaning of natural-born citizen. According to you Madison was dishonest when he defined natural born citizen. According to you every single person of the times who did not adhere to the Vattel definition were simply wrong. According to you.
Be that as it may, and regardless of whether Vattel is right or Blackstone is right because that is entirely a matter of opinion, it still makes your claim that there was one, universal, all agreed upon, definition of natural born citizen to be a load of manure. Which also makes it a typical DiogenesLamp post.
The response will be something like:
Obama and all the insiders knew Obama wasn’t eligible and thus he never held the office in good faith. Therefore, the De Facto Officer Doctrine does not apply.
Good luck getting ANY court to agree with that!
Agree it would go nowhere. There might have been a time...but we are decades beyond it. We live in a postmodern world.
Ping to news that leading Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore doesn’t believe that Barry is an NBC!
Thanks, GregNH
Barack Obama's disbarment was a slam dunk. He would have been disbarred if he hadn't given up his license voluntarily.
First you say he was disbarred. Then you say he would have been disbarred if he hadn't given up his license voluntarily. Having problems keeping things straight?
I generally try to learn those first, that way my stubbornness has a foundation upon which to stand. :)
Unfortunately, not a lot of people want to look at or believe any facts which do not fit with what they want to believe.
Agree! It’s just gobsmacking at times. To think there are supposed conservatives who believe the Framers wanted people who were British citizens at birth to occupy the Oval Office. Simply unbelievable.
"Of the time", you only have Madison, and he effectively reversed himself on this point in 1811. But you don't have to take my word for it. You are welcome to produce any authority from the time period and whom participated in any of the discussions on what this constitutional term might have meant.
I have mentioned John Marshall, James Wilson, Benjamin Franklin, Bushrod Washington, (Supreme Court Judge and Nephew of Washington), William Lewis and John Armstrong.
All of these men were either delegates to the convention or representatives of a state ratifying convention. All of these men are in a position to know whereof they speak. Rawle was not. Kent was not. Madison was, but i've already covered what was going on with him.
Be that as it may, and regardless of whether Vattel is right or Blackstone is right because that is entirely a matter of opinion, it still makes your claim that there was one, universal, all agreed upon, definition of natural born citizen to be a load of manure.
No it doesn't. Blackstone spoke of "Subjects". Vattel spoke of Citizens. The fact that we use the word "Citizen" in the Swiss meaning of the word, not the contemporaneous English meaning of the word, demonstrates conclusively that the source of the word is Vattel, Rousseau, and Burlamaqui, all writers on the laws of nature cited by the founders in their arguments, and all of which were Citizens of the Swiss Republic.
Already been here awhile arguing with someone who thinks they know what is going on, but actually doesn't.
I made the mistake of using the meaning in context of the person to whom I was responding. I knew what he meant, even though it was technically incorrect.
Unlike some, I don't try to be an @$$hole when people make minor mistakes in word usage.
Barack Obama was not disbarred, but he would have clearly been disbarred had he not voluntarily relinquished his law license. Michele was not technically disbarred, because they offered her the same sort of deal; "Give it up or we will take it from you."
These deals are the consequence of the Illinois Lawyer cartel protecting their own reputation.
One of the things that makes tedious people tedious is their insistence on pouncing on trifles.
That argument is unprovable and a distraction from the actual reason he is not a NBC. His father was never a citizen and a NBC has two citizens as parents. This rules Cruz out as well.
Mitch has nothing to do with this question.
The Enemy conveniently merges the two into one as it does Illegal with immigrant.
If he was born to an American mother he is a citizen just not necessarily Natural Born. That claim is another way of dismissing the actual issue - the status of his parents.
There was no way he would have been prevented being president because of what would have been portrayed as a “technicality” wrt to the age of his mother. Far too deep in the weeds for most Americans.
The mother of a citizen cannot surrender the citizenship of an underage child. No one can. It can only be changed by an adult citizen. Nor does having citizenship in another country negate one’s citizenship.
Getting past the preamble is to deep in the weeds for most Americans.
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