Apple removes VPN apps from the App Store in China

Tech Crunch (also reuters and nyt) ^ | 7/29/2017 | Jon Russell (@jonrussell)

[Swordmaker]

Apple accedes to the demands of the Chinese government regulations and removed VPN apps that allowed access to networks outside of China. Some Freepers (the usual ones) fail to grasp the requirements of following the law when you are doing business in a country with regulations that must be followed to do business there. . . and seem to think that Apple can do what it wants to do regardless of those laws.

Does anyone think that Apple should poke their corporate thumb in the Chinese government's (or any government's) eye and NOT remove those apps, when ordered to do so by the appropriate authorities? All other cellular phone and tablet companies with App Stores doing business in China have ALSO followed the same regulations and removed their VPN apps that allowed access to external networks from their app stores. This is not just about Apple. . . and only unthiinking idiots accuse Apple of doing this voluntarily on its own. — PING!

Thanks to dayglored for the heads up.

Apple Obeys Chinese Laws in China, Who Knew?
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[Swordmaker]

I would think the Chinese internet would long since have the ability to sniff out encrypted and tunneled packets. Whether the user has the app or not, their data still has to travel over a network rife with snooping.

China already has a firewall around China. . . which effectively prevents what this intends to do anyway. Google search will not work, for example, nor can a Chinese citizen connect to the US Apple Store. Only specific allowed sites outside of China are permitted. . . all other traffic is either blocked or watched.

As I understand it, only certain specified gateways are permitted. . . and those are monitored. Torrents are not going to be allowed in. Apple already has to store Chinese customer's data on Chinese owned servers. Apple at least avoided exposing their proprietary OSX and iOS source code to the Chinese government, something that Microsoft acceded to long ago, and has done for all later versions of Windows since. Nor have they agreed to permit any backdoors into the encryption on Apple devices.

But the customer data on the Chinese iCloud servers is, apparently, fair game under Chinese law, since the servers are not within Apple's ownership or control, nor do the Chinese people have similar legal protections to those we have in the USA in our Fourth Amendment. In China it is not a good idea to back data up to the iCloud or any cloud. . . but Chinese customers do it anyway.

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

Of course I just post an article and the liberal Apple lobby attacks me. The Apple customers paid for Apple to sell out their own Chinese customers.

[dayglored]

> I thought you couldn’t side load apps on new iDevices. Do you have an alternative if what you want isn’t in the app store?

Remember, what we're talking about is ILLEGAL in China.

I wouldn't use a phone or tablet. I'd use a small computer I constructed or purchased from a trusted private source, and software that I trusted, probably open source, since that's available without alerting the authorities.

Illegal activity in a totalitarian country is dangerous business, and not to be left to -any- commercial entity. IMO.

[Yossarian]

Does anyone think that Apple should poke their corporate thumb in the Chinese government's (or any government's) eye and NOT remove those apps, when ordered to do so by the appropriate authorities?

Back when I was working for Apple in the late 80s / early 90s, we were DAMN PROUD that Mac-based "Desktop Publishing" solutions played a key part in helping get out the REAL NEWS in the USSR and the Warsaw Pact, helping to disintegrate the evil axis!

Your fanboi instincts have taken you completely around the bend.

[dayglored]

> Of course I just post an article and the liberal Apple lobby attacks me.

Oh, come on now, even you can troll better than that.

Oh, silly IJAO, I'm not attacking YOU. I merely object to your factually incorrect statements and faux-righteous attitude.

I think posting the article was a good thing, and I'll thank you for that. But your trolling, snarky slurs, etc. completely negate the value of your posting contribution.

Have a great day.

[Swordmaker]

I thought you couldn’t side load apps on new iDevices. Do you have an alternative if what you want isn’t in the app store?

The side-loading of apps on jailbroken iOS devices is a major industry in China and is a major source of malware for these jailbroken iPhones and iPads. the XcodeGhost, a supposed faster and easier to download version of Apple's Xcode for writing iOS apps, came out of that grey market in China, which actually had malware built-in to add to all Apps it created. Over 4000 infected apps were created for these third-party App Stores using XcodeGhust, and a four or so of them even wound up in the Chinese Apple Store. It is not much of a problem in the rest of the world where such side-loading Apps are not as popular.

Most likely these VPN apps will be appearing in the non-official jailbroken channels in China, but I would be very suspicious of their provenance. . . and security. I would not be surprised if some of the third-party VPN apps were not probably created by the very government who is banning the apps to entrap those who would use them.

[Mark17]

Some Freepers (the usual ones) fail to grasp the requirements of following the law when you are doing business in a country with regulations that must be followed to do business there. . .

I own two iPhones, soon to be three. Two ipods, and a Mac Book Pro. Do you think I give a rat's rear end what any of these dudes think? Keep up the good work bro.

[Nero Germanicus]

My story is duplicated tens of thousands of times. Its called “free market capitalism.” You might want to learn a little about it some time.

[Swordmaker]

Of course I just post an article and the liberal Apple lobby attacks me. The Apple customers paid for Apple to sell out their own Chinese customers.

You see, dayglored, in Okie's twisted, delusional Universe in which his delusions reside, it is Apple, and Apple users, that are evil, not the government of China and its oppressive regime.

No, Okie, the facts of the article and the events that the article reports which stand on their own. It is your twisted commentary that is delusional and essentially insane. The perpetrators of this action is not Apple, nor its customers, as you absurdly claim, but rather the government of China and its agents who have ordered Apple to remove these Apps. Apple has no choice but to follow those laws as specified within the Jurisdiction of the Chinese Government. Apple is just as much of a victim of this oppression as are its Chinese customers.

You choose to blame the victims of an oppressive regime for the actions of that regime. YOU are delusional.

[Swordmaker]

Back when I was working for Apple in the late 80s / early 90s, we were DAMN PROUD that Mac-based "Desktop Publishing" solutions played a key part in helping get out the REAL NEWS in the USSR and the Warsaw Pact, helping to disintegrate the evil axis!

Your fanboi instincts have taken you completely around the bend.

What would you have Apple do? Defy the Chinese government and refuse to remove the Apps that they were ORDERED TO REMOVE due to them now being deemed to be ILLEGAL by the CHINESE GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES? Apple did not do this on their own.

Apple has fought the Chinese in many ways, including keeping unbreakable encryption on their iOS devices in China, and fighting them on revealing the macOS and iOS source code.

This is not APPLE acting unilaterally, Yossarian. ALL other smartphone tablet, and computer App stores have been forced to remove VPN apps that accessed out of country networks.

Just because it has Apple in the article does not make Apple, or me, the villain. USE LOGIC! The problem and the villain is the same as before: an oppressive central government who wishes to keep its people ignorant of worldwide information. That is what this is about. If a company is to do business in China, the company HAS TO FOLLOW THEIR LAWS to do so. It was not so long ago that business managers who flouted Chinese laws were summarily EXECUTED.

[Swordmaker]

Apple released a statement on this development:

In a statement, Apple noted that the Chinese government announced this year that all developers offering VPNs needed to obtain a government license. “We have been required to remove some VPN apps in China that do not meet the new regulations,” the company said. “These apps remain available in all other markets where they do business.”

So, it seems the VPNs that were not properly licensed with the Chinese government, not all VPNs, were those that were removed. I am sure the ones that were licensed were those that had a "reporting" function that sent all activity and copies to the central police, but then, that's what oppressive regimes require when they license things like VPNs. Note: Apple's statement says they were "required" to remove these apps, not that they removed them voluntarily.

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

Mist be some tasty punch.

You have no case.

[Swordmaker]

The New York times weighs in with this:

“The removals signal a new push by China to control the internet. In the past, the Great Firewall has used technology to disrupt VPNs, and Beijing has shut down Chinese VPNs and even aimed a huge cyberattack at a well-known foreign site hosting code that circumvented the filters,” Mozur reports. “While internet crackdowns often peak every five years, ahead of a key Chinese Communist Party congress, this year’s efforts cover fresh ground, a likely indication that stricter controls of things like VPNs will persist after the congress this autumn.”

In other words, this is business as usual in advance of the 19th penta-annual Chinese Communist Party Congress coming up in October/November of this year.

[dayglored]

Hey Okie, in case you didn’t notice, you just admitted your trolling has lost the stupid flame fest you started.

Too bad, so sad. See ya on the flip-flop. Good night.

[Swordmaker]

You have no case.

So, if you have a company operating in the United States and the FBI or IRS sends you a CEASE and DESIST letter, informing you are in violation of XYZ law and regulation, you just ignore the letter, and keep on doing it anyway? RIGHT! Sure, you do. . . Hell, Okie, make it your local zoning ordinance enforcement office. They tell you that your operation is in violation of several Zoning laws, and you thumb your nose at them, RIGHT? How long do you think you can get along doing that, and remain in business where you are? How about parking laws? You want to park where you like, even in the disabled zone without a suitable placard (Yeah, I know Steve Jobs reportedly had a tendency to do that). , , and you think you can do that without getting your car towed? Let's see YOU get away without paying the MANDATORY Fine, just because the disabled parking place is in front of your business and YOU think you should be allowed to use it because, well, it's the closest parking place in front of your business. . . and it impedes what YOU want. See how well that plays with the meter maid when she's writing that $750 mandatory ticket. . . or the tow truck is hooking your car up.

You do realize that the Chinese Communist Government had a tendency not too long ago to back up their edicts with bullets to the back of the head, don't you?

It's not quite as polite as here in the US where you can go get an injunction and tie the GOVERNMENT up in court for a few years. In China, the the government assumes you are guilty until you prove you're innocent. . . and the Courts agree with the government.

Are you STILL going to say I "have no case" for Apple following the LAW IN CHINA? If you do, and you try your philosophy, I won't visit you in jail.

We don't live in your delusional world.

[ImJustAnotherOkie]

Lay with dogs and you get fleas.

[palmer]

The side-loading of apps on jailbroken iOS devices is a major industry in China and is a major source of malware for these jailbroken iPhones and iPads

That's the best point of the thread. Nobody who is serious (e.g. a dissident) is going to use opaque, unvetted, unknown origin code to jailbrreak a phone for private communications. After all, it could be the Chinese government supplying the jailbreak

Instead people who need to get around the Chinese firewall get an old laptop and use Tails, Tor with bridges, or just GnuPG and some steg like steghide for private messages. If the authorities seize the laptop there's only a benign copy of windows or something like that on it.

Basically if someone expects something for nothing, e.g. an app from the app store, to keep them secure, then they are going to be disappointed. It takes some effort.

[palmer]

I'd use a small computer I constructed or purchased from a trusted private source, and software that I trusted, probably open source,

Exactly. It's a well-understood problem: you have to trust the system so Apple iPhone is out. You also have to erase all persistent evidence that could be used against you. If the authorities obtain your computer there will be nothing on it but a cover OS running some benign-looking stuff.

[palmer]

Sorry, meant to say jailbroken iPhone is out.