Posted on 07/25/2017 12:15:08 AM PDT by aquila48
Many libertarians seem to love to hate Elon Musk these days. His crime is to live off the public purse.
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I have a more complex assessment of Musk as a figure. I enjoyed listening to his 2015 biography by Ashlee Vance. I tend to look for the positive things in people. One positive quality here is the ability to re-envision products from the ground up in a completely different way. The Tesla is not just the evolution of the car, but a completely new way to think about what a car is. A car is a thing with an engine and a drive train, right? True for a century, but not any more. Musk has done in the fields of cars and rockets, what Steve Jobs did for computers and phones, completely re-envisioned what they could be, how they could be built, and how they could be used.
A second quality is execution under very challenging circumstances. Anyone can have big ideas, but only the few are able to successfully execute on them in the "really existing" world. SpaceX's rocket designs and rocket reuse and the Tesla Model S were almost universally deemed impossible — until the job was actually done. Rocket reuse was just a science-fiction fantasy. SpaceX did it. An electric car "that didn't suck" was also an impossibility — until Tesla built the Model S, which has been assessed by multiple car review magazines as basically the best car in the world, bar none, on both safety and performance. It is not only as good as conventional vehicles, it leaves them all behind, not just on green measures, but on car measures as such.
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He has repeatedly staked recklessly large portions of his personal fortune on bridging impossible-looking financial stretches for his enterprises.
(Excerpt) Read more at mises.org ...
Yup, DARPA was the model for the rest of the agencies. And good point. What is the net worth (and benefit) of today's information economy??? Huge and revolutionary, but totally unforeseen.
Elon is for Elon.
If the US Govt got 50% of the equity, I might agree with you. Any company that relies on at least 20% of its revenue to come from the government AND is still losing money hand over fist, isn’t a company, but an embezzlement. It may be a flashy embezzlement, and maybe many many years down the road it will work out, but there are many other car makers besides Musk and odds are it won’t work out great for taxpayers.
Do you "really" believe that gov't can do a better job of managing companies?? I don't. BUT, if it was NON-VOTING stock, I actually agree with you. And easy enough to implement.
"Any company that relies on at least 20% of its revenue to come from the government AND is still losing money hand over fist, isn’t a company, but an embezzlement. It may be a flashy embezzlement, and maybe many many years down the road it will work out, but there are many other car makers besides Musk and odds are it won’t work out great for taxpayers."
And this is the typical "libertarian purist" response. History has already shown otherwise over and over again. See post 20 for the definitive example. It already has "worked out for taxpayers", and in a big, big way.
No, I don't think government can manage companies well, but for the same reason they also can't pick good investments, either. Non-voting shares would be better than none.
You’re on the right track. SpaceX is planning a low Earth network of broadband Internet satellites that will number in the thousands.
The other big benefit of reusability is launch frequency. I guess with a stable of 50 booster cores or less they could do a launch a day. The biggest potential problem would be rocket failure which can stop launches for months.
SpaceX will also have another launchpad in Texas in a another year or so.
“...and even with heavy federal and state subsidies, Teslas are produced at a loss. BMW’s without those subsidies are produced at a profit. That’s the difference.”
Incorrect. Teslas are currently produced with 20-25% margins. Those margins will increase as the Gigafactory comes on line and economies of scale improve further.
Ummm, Tesla has an accumulated deficit of well over $3,000,000,000 and has lost $4.77 per share during the past 12 months. While Tesla may be the darling of Wall Street, and can claim whatever “margins” it wants, the fact is that its operations are a huge cash bonfire.
“After that full tank has been used, how long will it take to refill?”
That depends on the use case. If the car is driven less than 200 miles, it can recharge overnight in the garage. This accounts for 95%+ of driving, and means no more trips to the gas station.
If driven cross-country, it takes 30 minutes at a Supercharger station to get 170 miles range for a Model S. A nice amount of time to grab a bite to eat, stretch your legs, or do some shopping...
https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
It’s worth looking at the cost to drive (using Atlanta, GA as an example):
BMW:
1. 12000 miles/year
2. 25 miles/gallon
3. 2 dollars/gallon
12000/22 x 2 = $1090.91/year
Tesla:
1. 12000 miles/ year
2. .300 kWh/mile
3. 85% charging efficiency.
4. 10cents/kWh
=12000miles x .300kWh/miles=4000kWh
=4000/.85= 4706kWh x 1.5cents/kWh = $70.59/year (EV rate between 11 PM and 7 AM)
Even using full-rate electricity, the Tesla would only cost $350 a year to fuel.
“When will the BMW’s gas tank need to be replaced, if ever?”
How many luxury car owners keep their cars past 200K miles? The first article below involves a Tesla Model 90 that hit 200K miles, while only losing 6% battery capacity.
http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-reaches-200000-miles/
http://www.teslarati.com/how-long-will-tesla-battery-last-degradation/
Tesla has a huge R&D budget for now, and is also building a giant battery factory. It has a backlog of around 500,000 Model 3s, with deposits received. That backlog is worth somewhere north of $17.5 billion in revenue, and $4 billion in profit.
The forward looking stock market obviously expects big profit, since Tesla's market cap is bigger than GM's or Ford's. BTW, Ford lost a higher percentage of share price over the last 12 months...
Whoops, forgot to fix one number in the example. Item 4 under Tesla should be 1.5 cents per KWH. Normal rate electricity in Atlanta is under 7 cents per KWH.
But it takes minutes to refill a fuel tank. How quickly can a battery be recharged, when fully depleted?
Sales projections aren’t subject to audit, earnings are. Tesla reports its 2nd quarter earnings on August 2nd; let’s see how they do.
“But it takes minutes to refill a fuel tank. How quickly can a battery be recharged, when fully depleted?”
Please look over post #29... :-)
“Sales projections aren’t subject to audit, earnings are. Tesla reports its 2nd quarter earnings on August 2nd; let’s see how they do.”
‘Sales projections’ are different than ‘paid deposits’. Leaving that aside, the upcoming earnings report will reflect $0 of the Model 3 revenue... The first Model 3s are just beginning to roll off the assembly line.
Here’s some good publicity for the Model S, as Consumer Reports again has it as the top-ranked ultra luxury sedan:
“The Tesla Model S is just as “economically viable” as a BMW 750i”
Does BMW get $15,000 taxpayer subsidy per vehicle?
L
“Does BMW get $15,000 taxpayer subsidy per vehicle?”
Tesla does not either...instead a $7,500 tax credit to the buyer, correct?
You might find this interesting:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4069065-elon-musk-begs-feds-please-end-teslas-tax-subsidy
A tax credit is a subsidy.
L
Except when the power is out.
When the electricity in my area went out a couple of weeks ago I was able to get in my car and go elsewhere.
Not possible in that over priced hunk of junk.
You like them, you buy them. But stop peeing on our back and telling us it is rain.
“When the electricity in my area went out a couple of weeks ago I was able to get in my car and go elsewhere.
Not possible in that over priced hunk of junk.”
With a minimum range of 210 miles, and typically over 300, unless you have a really long commute you’ll have plenty of reserve. I expect most folks have a ICE vehicle as well regardless...
As to “hunk of junk”, not too many cars can do 0-60 in 3.1 seconds, and only the Model S at anything near its price point.
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