Horse Manure and the Manure Fork... 
you dish it out with--
If Philando Castile had listened to what the police officer was saying ("Don't pull it out!")... 
he would be alive today.
Posted on 06/21/2017 9:19:40 AM PDT by deplorableindc
Philando Castile did what you are supposed to do if you have a concealed-carry permit and get pulled over by police: He let the officer know he had a gun. Had Castile been less forthcoming, he would still be alive.
Last Friday a Minnesota jury acquitted the cop who killed Castile of second-degree manslaughter, demonstrating once again how hard it is to hold police accountable when they use unnecessary force. The verdict also sends a chilling message to gun owners, since Castile is dead because he exercised his constitutional right to keep and bear arms.
Jeronimo Yanez, an officer employed by the St. Anthony, Minnesota, police department, stopped Castile around 9 p.m. on July 6 in Falcon Heights, a suburb of Minneapolis and St. Paul. The official reason was a nonfunctioning brake light.
The actual reason, according to Yanez, was that Castile resembled a suspect in a convenience store robbery that had happened four days before in the same neighborhood. The full extent of the resemblance was that Castile, like the suspect, was black, wore glasses and dreadlocks, and had a "wide-set nose."
(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...
It seems a lot of these shootings happen after LEOs give people contradictory commands. I don’t know it it’s a failure of training or lack of intelligence or both.
I have to wonder why you would make a claim so plainly contradicted by the actual recording of the event.
His words were: "I do have a firearm on me."
The officer immediately panicked and was firing in seconds.
In case it's not clear, the officer firing was a direct and immediate response to learning that the person he was talking to was bearing arms.
There's really no middle ground here and no ambiguity. This government agent murdered Castille specifically because Castille exercised his right to bear arms.
If you're OK with that we're going to be on opposite sides of the war to come.
That isn't what the officer told him.
Pretty much what happened. Did the officer have some basis for fearing a gun might be pulled on him? Certainly. They may have that fear with every traffic stop. But that's exactly the situations they sign up to get in. That's the job. It can't be excusable for police officers to shoot people because they get in tense and dangerous situations. That's what they do. There must be some actual threat, not a hypothetical one.
I am not convinced we know what happened in that shooting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/us/police-shooting-castile-trial-video.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_J3sYIgvUE
The dashcam video does not show what Castile was doing, but it does not sound like the cop wanted him to reach anywhere after hearing Castile had a gun. The video inside the car started after the shooting - it’s quite a performance but it does not tell us what triggered the shooting. In the gap between Yanez asking for Castile’s driver’s license and insurance, Castile says he has a gun and is then told not to reach for it.
The problem is that “I have a gun” pretty much clears any normal cop’s mind of the fact that the cop just asked for license and insurance. In that situation, I would have put both hands on the dashboard before informing the cop that I had a permit and a weapon, and said that I was not going to move my hands until he told me exactly what he wanted me to do. Then any movements would have been ostentatiously slow. Give the cop complete control to reduce his nervousness.
With no view of what movement Castile made inside the car that triggered the shooting, I don’t think we know whether the shooting was justified. The jury voted for at least reasonable doubt, and it’s hard to argue with that. The police department no longer employs him, and it’s hard to argue with that also.
Here is where I fault LEO training.
When a person self identifies as a CCW, the officer should respond with “For both of our saftey, please place your hands on the steering wheel.”
The next step is it identify WHERE the firearm is located. “Without taking your hands off the steering wheel, can you tell me where the firearm is located?”
The next question should be where their CCW permit is located.
The response then determines the next action. If the response indicates that the firearm is NOT on the person, the next activity should be to have the person step out of the vehicle.
If the response indicates that the person has the firearm on their person, this becomes more problematic. I recommend telling the person that having their firearm within reach is a cause for concern by the officer for their own safety. Draw their own firearm if not already out, and then have the driver open the car door with their left hand. Then take a position so that the car door is between the officer and the driver. Finally, instruct the driver to use ONE hand, and retrieve the firearm and place it on the dash and to do so SLOWLY.
Once the firearm is on the dash, have the driver exit the vehicle.
[full disclosure] I am not a LEO, however I have trained LEO and SWAT. Not currently in that occupation.
Horse Manure and the Manure Fork... you dish it out with--
If Philando Castile had listened to what the police officer was saying ("Don't pull it out!")... he would be alive today.
I watched the dashcam video and it was not murder. It was in fact a righteous shoot.
"Don't reach for it"
"don't pull it out"
"don't pull it out!"
Bang
Dash cam video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1ac7Zblqyk
When an LEO tells you to do something if you do not understand the command, freeze. Do Nothing!
How do you know that Castile was not pulling out his gun? The video I saw is the dashcam from the police car and you cannot see the movement in the car.
If someone is screaming at you to not pull out your gun, and you aren't pulling out your gun. You are pulling out your wallet and you tell them that's what you are doing, you might very well think you are complying. There is no sign in that video that the dead guy was not complying with the officer.
Best post here.
You can’t see what was going on, and without that, it is impossible to know what happened. The video and the audio are at odds. Castile was calm, and didn’t seem crazy or criminal, but it does seem something was going on visually that freaked the cop out. It seems as if had Castille put his hands on the wheel, and not moved, the shoot would not have happened.
Without seeing what Castille was doing, the only things left to look at are, did he have a CCW? The media says yes, but how often do they say things that aren’t true?
Was he on any drugs? Some have said blood tests said yes. Did the officer smell pot? Smelling drugs in a car and being told, “I do have a firearm,” Could be problematic. If you are going to carry, no pot, no alcohol, and don’t do anything illegal.
Absent any other info, there is nothing to mull over in this, so the NRA couldn’t get involved.
No, the relevant question in every shooting case is, was the shooting justified?
"When an LEO tells you to do something if you do not understand the command, freeze. Do Nothing!"
There is nothing in that video that shows Castile not doing what he is told.
"How do you know that Castile was not pulling out his gun? The video I saw is the dashcam from the police car and you cannot see the movement in the car."
Exactly so, but I believe that not even the police allege he was actually pulling out his gun. They only say the officer was in fear of him doing so. The officer never saw a gun produced.
I have watched it too. Looked to me like the officer panicked.
The process that I have always understood is that you get your license AND your CCW permit BEFORE the cop gets to your car. You put both hands on the wheel and hold your cards in your left hand. When he gets to your window you give him your ID and CCW and put both hands back on the wheel. If he doesn’t immediately ask if you are carrying, tell him, “I have my CCW and I am carrying in pocket/on my hip/at 4:00/etc...”
If this guy would have done it like that he would be alive.
It was in fact an unambiguous murder under color of law.
Those pleas sounded desperate to me, the stress is increasing and the LEO does not want to do what he believes he is being forced to do.
Well, as has already been pointed out, "I have a gun" wasn't his language. The words he used and the way he said it was clearly meant to not portray a threat.
I've been through the courses. They tell you that if you get pulled over you should inform the officer that you have a permit and a weapon. That's what he was doing.
Could the communication, both ways, have been clearer? Absolutely. But we often hear that police have to make split second decisions. Well that applies to the people they interact with as well. The police at least ought to have some training for it.
As for your comments about putting both hands in view when informing the officer, that's absolutely correct. Haven't gotten pulled over yet, but if it happens that's what I intend to do.
Or maybe, just maybe, Castile is dead because he was under the influence of mind-altering drugs.
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