Seven Dead Sailors 'Were Trapped ALIVE inside Flooding USS Fitzgerald after their Comrades [Trunc]

Daily Mail (U.K.) ^ | June 20, 2017 | James Wilkinson & Michael Fitzpatrick

[Cecily]

The Navy is investigating the horrifying possibility that some of those who died on the USS Fitzgerald when it sank may have been trapped alive in rapidly flooding compartments as emergency hatches were closed, it has emerged.

Cargo ship the ACX Crystal slammed into the side of the US destroyer off the Japanese coast while much of the rest of the crew were asleep on Saturday.

The cargo ship's bow, which protrudes underneath the water, punctured the steel armor of the ship, opening a hole into the quarters where more than 100 sailors slept.

Emergency hatches were closed on the compromised berthing compartments to stop the ship from sinking.

Now it's suspected that some of the seven men who died aboard the ship were locked in those rooms as they were flooded, Good Morning America reported.

[rlmorel]

See the post here in another thread: See Post# 74 at this link: Updated ACX Crystal course plot with correct times.

There were two things that were unclear originally:

1. The time of collision was originally thought to be nearly an hour later than it actually was, but it has been determined that the USS Fitzgerald actually reported it an hour later than it really happened, due to damage to the communications center on the Fitzgerald, and they were probably too busy containing flooding, fire, and damage to make that their top priority (I assume that, don't know) 2. When people saw the tracking data of the ACX Crystal, the times were off on that as well due to a misinterpretation of the local time.

These have both been taken into account, and the collision occurs at point B in the graphic below, not at point A. After the time of collision and the local time adjustment were made, the collision is very likely point B.

Additionally, look at the dots signifying speed of the ACX Crystal.

As Freeper TXnMA hypothesizes (and, I think correctly) it appears the two vessels may have been traveling on parallel tracks and either the ACX Crystal overtook the USS Fitzgerald and struck a blow to her starboard side, or the Fitgerald got in the path of the ACX Crystal and was struck a glancing blow. Either way that makes more sense to me, as a 30,000 ton container ship traveling at 20 knots would cut right through even a stout naval vessel if hit dead on to the side (T-bone).

After the collision, the crew of the ACX Crystal may have been awoken, checked out damage, then doubled back to see if they could render assistance.

They may not even have known what kind of vessel they collided with, the fate of the vessel, or even it it was a vessel. For all they knew, it could have been a whale, a floating container that fell off a ship...if there was even one person awake on watch on the ACX Crystal, I can easily see pandemonium and confusion. The watch could have been surfing the internet or reading a book, and been just as confused. And we still don't know what transpired on the bridge of the USS Fitzgerald.

We won't know until we see the track of the USS Fitzgerald, but the adjusted times make more sense.

[ilovesarah2012]

https://nhlifefree.com/2017/06/17/uss-fitzgerald-collison-v-strange-course-change-by-acx-crystal-and-the-radar-mystery/

[William Tell]

garyb said: "That just has to be about one of the hardest things to order or to do."

It is hard. I'll share some of my experience.

I spent many hours on guard duty while in the Army. The first several sessions caused me to go through a lot of "what ifs" concerning the situation. Having never killed anyone before I thought through the moral dilemma of having to take lives in order to save my life or the lives of my fellow soldiers.

Eventually I KNEW exactly what I planned to do and had no doubt whatever that I would be able to carry out the plan. I was fully prepared to kill any number of people to prevent the breach of our site security. After that, guard duty became just hours of boredom.

Commanding a ship or part of a ship would entail the same type of process. I expect that the crew had already thought through the necessity of saving the ship if some incident created a breach below the water line. There wouldn't be time during the incident to weigh the moral arguments. If water is rushing into the ship, you close the watertight doors.

[rlmorel]

LOL, that is unless you are stupid enough (as I once was) to get trapped behind a jet blast deflector as a Tomcat was taking off in full afterburner.

THAT was definitely NOT breathable!

[central_va]

I’ve been to REFTRA at GITMO many times. Almost all WTD can be un-dogged and opened from either side. The side with the hinges presents a problem. If the water has risen above the lower threshold hydrostatic pressure will make the door un- openable even if un-dogged. So there are two possibilities: The dead sailors were killed on impact. They weren’t killed but injured so baldy a they couldn’t crawl out before the door was secured. If they were banging on the door to get out that noise would have been heard by other crew members. I did not hear that there was any indication of noise form that comparment.

[PGR88]

Sadly, that’s the entire reason why waterproof hatches exist

[TontoKowalski]

Exactly. Each member of the crew is a vital part of mission success, but no single member - or even seven - outweighs the overall mission or the safety of the larger crew.

It is through repeated and intensive training that servicemen instinctively react in a way to preserve the ship or the base, no matter the cost.

God bless those who lost their lives, and those who lost their shipmates.

[rlmorel]

It is a fact of life in the military, as TontoKowalksi said, that even in peace, the US Military can be a hazardous occupation.

It is a tenet of the US Military to train as they will fight, and that can be dangerous even above and beyond the inherent dangers.

Even during peacetime, while we sleep in our beds at night, go to weddings and parties on weekends, or work at our jobs during the days, there are vessels like the USS Fitzgerald all over the world doing their jobs, with our family members and loved ones on them. There are warplanes flying at all times. And the Marines and soldiers deployed to places all over the world that are immediately dangerous and have active hostilities if not a formally announced war such as Iraq and Afghanistan.

These people do this for us. Sure, it is just a job for many, and they all wish they could be somewhere else (probably) but they do it. And if things go from cold to hot, they can lose their lives at any time.

I try to keep that in mind and appreciate it.

[Haiku Guy]

Saving the ship must always be the first priority.

This is the hard truth of the military. There are some things that take precedence over the life of the individual soldier, sailor or airman.

That is why the sailor tragically sealed in the flooding compartment is a cliché found in every navy movie ever filmed.

[CrazyIvan]

A large breach near the bow while the ship is moving can act as a scoop and cause massive flooding. This may have been the only way to prevent further loss of life.

[Robert A Cook PE]

???

I served on a submarine, and maintained submarines as a shipyard engineer for ten years.

EVERY compartment (even the one I slept in - right above my own bunk!) had at least two exits!

[William Tell]

central_va said: "I would have let them out of that berthing compartment even if the ship were to sink as a result of that action."

I believe that your thinking is wrong on several counts.

First, think back to Pearl Harbor. When a naval ship sinks, there are almost always lost lives because there are so many spaces that can be a death trap even if the watertight doors are open. I think about 1200 lost their lives on the Arizona.

The second point is also made by thinking of the Arizona. None of the sailors aboard the Arizona that morning was aware that the U.S. would be at war with Japan that afternoon. Their ship was attacked and their duty was to save the ship. The outcome of the war was greatly impacted by the aircraft carriers that were not sunk during that attack.

My final point is made by the statement in the movie "12 O'clock High" by the General commanding a B17 bomb group. He told his crews to stop thinking about being hurt or killed during a mission. Just consider yourself already dead. Without the sense of duty adopted by the great majority of military fighters, the typical battle would become a mad dash of individuals attempting to save their own skins by running away or trying to hide while others did the dirty work.

Without a sense of duty of greater importance than life itself, the Normandy landings could never have occurred and the world we live in would be very much different.

[central_va]

I agree every berthing space has more than one exit. I still don’t get this.

[Roccus]

Order of priorities;

1) The Mission
2) The Ship
4) The Men

[central_va]

This is peacetime and a DDG is nothing but a floating chunk of metal. So you have to figure in peace time whether the loss of life is worth it. Above my pay grade.

[Roccus]

Typo...4 S/B 3

[Jarhead9297]

Until an official military reports comes out showing this chart and ACTUAL times then I’ll be here to recant. However as with all news today the first stories aren’t the facts and in fact there has been article about this image stating the “turn” occurred after the accident. But I’ll say again NO SHIP of this size can make a hair-pin turn. These ships do not move fast or quickly at all. They are tanks on the water and take a great deal of ocean area in which to maneuver

[meadsjn]

... but in light of information coming out, regarding the timing,

Last I heard, the US Navy is sticking with the collision time around 2:25am local.

Until the Navy presents their info showing differently, I'll keep believing the Navy's version.

Too many different people on the Fitzgerald would have had to be dead asleep to just cruise into a huge cargo vessel. There are two officers and 8-10 enlisted on the bridge; 8-10 enlisted in CIC, four visual lookouts on a clear night. At least three of the lookouts (fore, aft, and starboard) would have been screaming bloody murder through their sound-powered phones as that mountainous cargo ship bore down on the destroyer. The OOD would have had a mutiny on the bridge if he had ignored all the input.

[ilovesarah2012]

Hairpin turn remark was relative. I understand a large freighter can’t turn on a dime.

[NewJerseyJoe]

Sadly, this is not an unknown scenario in naval history. It happened at Pearl Harbor.

Pearl Harbor: 16 Days To Die