Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 30 April 2017

Various driveby media television networks ^ | 30 April 2017 | Various Self-Serving Politicians and Big Media Screaming Faces

[Alas Babylon!]

The Talk Shows

Apr 30th, 2017

Guests to be interviewed today on major television talk shows:

FOX NEWS SUNDAY (Fox Network): Sen. Chuck U. Schumer, D-N.Y.

MEET THE PRESS (NBC): Vice President Mike Pence; Sens. Susan Collins, R-Maine, and Angus King, I-Maine.

FACE THE NATION (CBS): President of the United States Donald J. Trump.

THIS WEEK (ABC): President Donald Trump's chief of staff, Reince Priebus; Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

STATE OF THE UNION (CNN): Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

[kabar]

I honestly think you are extrapolating the idea that poor immigrants will always be poor immigrants, and therefore their politics will remain Leftist/Socialist.

I have been having this discussion with the GOPe types who refuse to accept the facts and reality and cling to our past, often romanticized, immigration history that seems to hold it as a matter of faith that assimilation will take place and that importing more immigrants than we have ever had in our history, 87% of whom are minorities as classified by the USG, will not change this country and not in a good way.

We have just had three of the four highest decades of LEGAL immigration in our history. In 1970 one in 21 was foreign-born; today, it is a little less one in eight, the highest in 105 years; and by 2023, it will be one in 7, the highest in our history. Immigration drives 80% of our population growth. Since 1990 35 million legal permanent immigrants have entered this country or the equivalent of the current population of Canada. Immigrants are having a major electoral impact, which is why the Dems want more of them, legal and otherwise.

If that were the case, German immigrants of 1848 (basically Leftists who were defeated by Royalists); the Irish of the Potato Famine; later Italians, Serbs, Russians and Poles (who came in the late 1800s/early 1900s) would all be Eugene Debs socialists today...

I suggest you read Samuel Huntington's The Hispanic Challenge

"The persistent inflow of Hispanic immigrants threatens to divide the United States into two peoples, two cultures, and two languages. Unlike past immigrant groups, Mexicans and other Latinos have not assimilated into mainstream U.S. culture, forming instead their own political and linguistic enclaves -- from Los Angeles to Miami -- and rejecting the Anglo-Protestant values that built the American dream. The United States ignores this challenge at its peril."

I watched firsthand the transformation of VA from a reliable Rep state to a now blue state due to immigration. CA is the canary in the coal mine. The demographics of CA today will be those of the US in 2050. Do you think CA will be a conservative state anytime soon?

Nothing in life comes easy, sorry to say. A tough order, but it can be done. We are, however, the United States of America, and I believe in American Exceptionalism—as spelled out in the Declaration of Independence. I don’t think you have to be a certain ethnic group to believe in it also.

Yeah, I know how it goes, "Diversity is a strength." Well, I have news for you. No matter how "exceptional" we think we are, we are not immune to the tribal instincts that mark virtually every country on earth. The trend since WWII has been more tribalism, not less. The UN started with 51 founding members; we now have 193 member countries.

The numbers increased with the end of colonialism and the fall of the Soviet Union, but there have been other divisions having to do with race, ethnicity, language, culture, etc. not only in the Third World, but also, the developed world. Separatist movements exist in Spain, the UK, Holland, Belgium, Canada, and elsewhere. Czechoslovakia broke up. Scotland narrowly voted to remain in the UK. Brexit threatens the the existence of the EU as nationalist movements throughout Europe are rising in response to the massive influx of refugees and immigrants. Donald Trump benefited by his stances on immigration and trade.

The foreign-born population of the US was 9.2 million in 1970. It is now close to 45 million. We are witnessing one of the greatest peaceful mass migrations of people in history. People are not widgets or units of labor. They bring their own world view, culture, language, etc. And the numbers are so great that assimilation is becoming more and more problematic. Our educational system used to act as a vehicle for assimilation. Now it has become a way to divide people thru multiculturalism and diversity.

Studies have been done of immigrant children entering our schools identifying as Americans and leaving feeling as aggrieved members of an ethnic or racial minority. We incentivize these identities thru our policies that reward people with special privileges and rights whether it is affirmative action, minority business set asides, or election ballots in their native languages. We also make them victims of an oppressive white majority.

The Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 out of the last 7 Presidential elections. Hillary received 3 million more votes thanks to huge majorities from minority voters. The trend will only continue as each cohort that turns 18 annually is more minority than the previous one. One out of every four students in K-12 in a public school comes from a family where a language other than English is spoken at home.

Unless this country reduces significantly legal immigration into this country, we will see more and more a society divided along linguistic, cultural, racial, religious, and ethnic lines. A growing wealth distribution gap will exacerbate our problems as a permanent underclass populated primarily by blacks and Hispanics will fuel social unrest and discord. We will lose this country thru the ballot box.

[kabar]

If these diagrams,polls etc. are from 2012 they are pre-Trump.Will the effects of the Trump adm. on immigration, more,better border control,a wall down the road, change any of this data?

Marginally. If we continue to bring in 1.1 million legal permanent immigrants every year, then the trend will continue as the GOP power base, non-Hispanic whites, continues to decline as a percentage of the population.

[kabar]

2028 and 2033 are a long way off why cant everyone agree on bumping up the age of eligibility say 6 months every year until we can afford what we are spending.?

They are not a long way off and we are experiencing the impact now of the entitlement shortfalls. SS and Medicare are pay as you go programs, i.e., today's workers pay for today's retirees. When there is a shortfall, the difference is made up by the Trust Funds, which cash in their non-market, interest bearing T-bills. They must be redeemed by the General Fund, which depends on borrowing some of the money to pay the bills. So we are really borrowing money to help pay for SS and Medicare.

By law, the premiums collected for Medicare Part B only cover 25% of the costs. The rest of the money comes from the General Fund. As a result, 40% of all Medicare expenditures come from the General Fund. Unless Medicare is reformed, it will eventually consume the entire federal budget.

Changing the age could have actuarial benefits, but it will only mitigate the size of the shortfall given the huge baby boom bulge that is working its way thru the system. The population over 65 will about double in the next 20 years. It is hard to imagine there is the political will to start implementing an increase in the age to receive benefits affecting people 55 or more. And it might not fly for those over 45. Most people have not saved for their retirement.

[shalom aleichem]

I wish I had seen this article today so I could discuss it on the Sunday thread.

So Oregon is taking us back down the civilization trail to build skyscrapers out of WOOD!?

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2017/04/oregon_makes_push_for_wood_sky.html

[ROCKLOBSTER]

>>(CBS)Trump just said "fake news...which sometimes includes you"...told him he watches the show and calls it "Deface the Nation"<<

LOL. I'll have to read that transcript.

Here it is: freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3548849/posts

[Steven Tyler]

...Sleepy eyes asks the a-hole-question......”How you going to pay for it”....

Smartalec answer> Why, we pay for it the same way 0bama dug a 20 trillion dollar hole...

[billyboy15]

I wonder why the WH does not insist on having their own cameras their so the entire interview can be recorded. It is a sure fire way to expose any disingenuous editing on the part of the Liberal media.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Smartalec answer> Why, we pay for it the same way 0bama dug a 20 trillion dollar hole...Cloward-Piven.

We reverse his attempt to overwhelm the system, by shutting down the government....forever.

[GOPJ]

Thanks Alas...

[Alas Babylon!]

Well, Kabar, your posts are always interesting and informative and I always read them carefully and thoroughly, no less for this one...

However, I sense just a wee bit of hostility for me in your words that really isn't warranted as in reality, and looking at this non-emotionally (which I don't do nearly enough), we're actually mostly in agreement.

To your first paragraph, I am not one of the GOPe, nor do I look at our immigration past starry-eyed in any way. My ancestry is mostly Puritan English from the 1630s so I could argue that aside for Indians, every one else is a dang foreign immigrant, even you Irish!

But in reality, I just don't care. If you are a conservative and lover of the United States and the Constitution, then I stand with you. Your color, ethnic origin, etc.? I really couldn't care less. If you're a socialist/communist or fundamentalist Muslim? Get the F out of my country, and I don't care if you're white, black, yellow or pink with purple polkadots. And you're right, the democrats WANT these people, no matter how unacceptable they are as citizens, because they'll vote for dems.

Having said that, perhaps your posting has been used before in the past as it looks really familiar to me, or we've had this debate before; maybe both.

Still, I respect your data and figures and you won't get an argument out of me as to your accuracy--it is accurate.

What I think is missing is the fact that so much of the EVENTS this data points to has ALREADY occurred. It's like arguing the budget deficit using the Bush era numbers when we are now in the post-Obama mega-deficit era.

The fact is, all these immigrants are already here. And, from a pragmatic view, the pipeline is not going to be shut off. I do consider THAT quite unfortunate, as I too believe a moratorium on immigrants should occur in order for us to "digest" the huge, or hugest chunk we've just swallowed whole. If Trump suggests it, the country will explode with not just angry liberals, but as you say the GOPe, too.

So just WHAT should we do about the problem?

You said: Our educational system used to act as a vehicle for assimilation. Now it has become a way to divide people thru multiculturalism and diversity.

My posting was concentrating on just this issue alone. It is not an "If you can't beat 'em, join em" message at all, but only to point out that we once were able to assimilate immigrants. We NEED to do it again.

Because... They're already here, which only gives us the choice of converting them, or let them complete their mission of ruining our country.

My opinion is we can't put the immigrant genie back in the bottle. At least without a lot more political victories than just Donald Trump. If you disagree, explain how we can reduce, or better, stop immigration, and even send some back? I'm honestly not asking to bait you, but to hear your proposal, as I well know you work on this for a living.

Anyway, I have two teenage kids. They are both white, Christian (well, Catholic!) conservatives. I do not want to see them become a prosecuted minority in their future days.

[rodguy911]

So if the wall does get built and we do start taking in far fewer than a million illegals per year it can make a difference and put off the inevitable for at least a while?

[arrogantsob]

What a troglodyte, don’t you understand that “logic” and “reason” are just the White Man’s invention to enslave the illogical and unreasonable?

Get with the program, comrade.

[arrogantsob]

The proper description of economic growth is JFK’s “ A rising tide floats all boats.” Trickle Down sounds like an welcome event running down your leg.

Control the language and you control the thoughts.

[arrogantsob]

God I hate it when Rush does that with RR’s name. It is almost as annoying as the Super Fast Talkers at the end of some commercials warning of all the negative effects of something. Where it is just a blur of words.

[arrogantsob]

And he ended the Korean conflict as promised.

[arrogantsob]

Politico? Politico? Are you serious?

George Bush was the most conservative governor in America when elected President. There were no viable alternatives to him in the second election for good reason.

I do agree that he did not fight the Fake News cartel but don’t delude yourself that there was an alternative.

[arrogantsob]

Duh, his state likes him.

It is interesting to see a former Cruz supporter defend his choice. I lost all respect for the Senator when he blamed the Chicago Riots on Trump and don’t try and deny it, I heard this from his own mouth, live.

[arrogantsob]

State legislatures need to step up to the plate and start defunding the universities and colleges teaching this pap. And demand that the holier than thou full professors start teaching some courses. (I realize that this has positive and negative aspects but it would allow some control over costs.)

[arrogantsob]

There was a picture of what appears to be him in the scene were LHO was arrested because of his “pro-Castro” actions. Of course, more thorough investigation make it almost a certainty that Oswald was used in a I Led Three Lives scenario.

The only reason that occurred was because Oswald was being groomed to be able to sneak into Cuba as a Leftist.

[kabar]

However, I sense just a wee bit of hostility for me in your words that really isn't warranted as in reality, and looking at this non-emotionally (which I don't do nearly enough), we're actually mostly in agreement.

If there was any hostility towards you, it was not intended. It comes from the frustration I have had with Reps on this issue whether it is at local county political meetings, briefing Rep candidates like Cantor, George Allen, Ed Gillespie, etc, and during the five CPACs I attended as an exhibitor with our grassroots immigration organization. Only Dave Brat paid attention and used immigration as a winning issue. The rest expressed views like yours that equated today's immigration with those in our history.

To your first paragraph, I am not one of the GOPe, nor do I look at our immigration past starry-eyed in any way. My ancestry is mostly Puritan English from the 1630s so I could argue that aside for Indians, every one else is a dang foreign immigrant, even you Irish!

On my mother's side, I can trace us back to 1704 when Swiss and German relatives settled in PA. My maternal grandfather can trace his roots back to Thomas Hooker and John Alden. The Irish came as a result of the potato famine. And my paternal grandmother came from Liverpool.

But in reality, I just don't care. If you are a conservative and lover of the United States and the Constitution, then I stand with you. Your color, ethnic origin, etc.? I really couldn't care less. If you're a socialist/communist or fundamentalist Muslim? Get the F out of my country, and I don't care if you're white, black, yellow or pink with purple polkadots. And you're right, the democrats WANT these people, no matter how unacceptable they are as citizens, because they'll vote for dems.

You may not care what color, ethnic origin, political ideology, etc. people are, but the reality is that we have tribal politics where those things matter and they translate into a permanent Dem majority if the demographic trend continues. The concept of white privilege is just a harbinger of things to come as minorities become the majority. Will the new majority (actually the name of a leftist group in VA) identify with the vision and values of our Founders or see them as old, bigoted white men who inflicted slavery and oppression on downtrodden minorities?

There is no way you will be able to put a political or religious test on immigrants entering this country and you won't be able to tell them to "get the F out of my country."

What I think is missing is the fact that so much of the EVENTS this data points to has ALREADY occurred. It's like arguing the budget deficit using the Bush era numbers when we are now in the post-Obama mega-deficit era.

Yes, it has occurred and it is occurring unabated right now. Do we have to accept it as a given that we bring in 1.1 million legal permanent immigrants a year, 87% of whom are minorities as classified by the USG, and the vast majority come from the Third World. 20% of the adult heads of household lack even a high school diploma. Do we need more high school dropouts to compete with Americans for jobs ? Add to this 640,000 guest workers a year and hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens entering annually.

We can change our immigration policies and start enforcing our existing immigration laws. We can put American workers and their families first when it comes to immigration policies. We have the lowest labor participation rates since the 1970s. Immigrants, legal and illegal, are taking American jobs and depressing wages. Moreover, they are not assimilating and want us to accommodate to their views and values. The Rule of Law no longer exists as we have elected officials supporting sanctuary cities and amnesty.

Do you believe that these policies must continue since they happened in the past?

The fact is, all these immigrants are already here. And, from a pragmatic view, the pipeline is not going to be shut off. I do consider THAT quite unfortunate, as I too believe a moratorium on immigrants should occur in order for us to "digest" the huge, or hugest chunk we've just swallowed whole. If Trump suggests it, the country will explode with not just angry liberals, but as you say the GOPe, too.

Why can't you shut off the pipeline? Do you believe an amnesty is inevitable and should be implemented? In fact, polls show most Americans want a reduction in legal immigration. Based on my anecdotal encounters with CPAC attendees over five years, I was constantly amazed at how uninformed they were on immigration. One question I always asked was, "How many legal permanent immigrants are admitted to the US annually?" Most gave answers between 10,000 to 50,000. Some went as high as 100,000 and a very few gave the right answer of 1.1 million. Pretty amazing given these were supposed to be politically active conservatives. They were stunned when I gave the numbers. The open border advocates have been very successful in keeping the American public in the dark about immigration. And it is very difficult to get immigration data from state and local governments, especially the schools.

Only 22% of likely U.S. voters believe that "bringing in more immigrant workers would create economic growth, which would provide more jobs for unemployed Americans." 66% believe that increased immigration creates more competition for unemployed Americans. 73% said that there are plenty of unemployed Americans to fill lesser-skilled jobs (Pulse Opinion, August 2013).

Only 23% of American adults support increasing immigration levels to the U.S. 35% want immigration decreased, while 40% want it to remain at its present level (the current number of over a million annual immigrant admissions was not supplied to respondents) (Gallup, July 2013).

So just WHAT should we do about the problem?

I thought you would never ask:

Principles

 Immigration to America is a privilege and not a right

 Immigration policy is a discretionary policy

 Immigration policy must promote the national interest

We support a pro-immigrant, low immigration policy that contains the following elements:

 A merit based immigration system that brings in the skills and talents to keep us competitive in the global economy;

 Reduced immigration levels based on need and more closely approximating 300,000 legal immigrants a year;

 Elimination of extended chain migration, i.e., family reunification, limiting it to the nuclear family;

 Enforcement of existing immigration laws to reduce the current illegal alien population and limit future illegal immigration, i.e., attrition thru enforcement. Enforcement would include: (1) ending the job magnet; (2) increasing coordination at the federal level by eliminating barriers to information sharing among agencies; (3) leveraging state and local enforcement resources; (4) securing the border; (5) fully implementing the US-VISIT Program to track and deport visa overstays; and (6) make mandatory and improve such programs as E-Verify and 287 [g] authority to assist employers and law enforcement in identifying illegal aliens;

 Elimination of birthright citizenship;

 Ensure that anyone who enters this nation illegally is not rewarded by being permitted to stay and work here; i.e., no amnesty;

 Streamline the processing and adjudication of immigration cases; and

 Promote pro-immigrant measures that help newcomers assimilate and embrace the values and principles of our Founders and the Constitution.

“You cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state.”-- Milton Friedman

My posting was concentrating on just this issue alone. It is not an "If you can't beat 'em, join em" message at all, but only to point out that we once were able to assimilate immigrants. We NEED to do it again.

We can't assimilate those kinds of numbers. By 2023 we will have more foreign-born per capita than at any time in our history as a nation. By the way, did you take the time to look at the link I provided to Professor Huntington's article that went into great length on the differences between today's persistent, non-stop immigration compared to those previously?

Because... They're already here, which only gives us the choice of converting them, or let them complete their mission of ruining our country.

False choice. We do not have to accept 12 to 30 million illegal aliens in our midst. Attrition thru enforcement works. Nor do we have to accept the current levels of legal immigration. We are not going to "convert" anyone, especially when one political party benefits from the status quo that will make them the permanent majority party. The people we should be "converting" are the American people to reduce legal immigration and enforce our laws.

My opinion is we can't put the immigrant genie back in the bottle. At least without a lot more political victories than just Donald Trump. If you disagree, explain how we can reduce, or better, stop immigration, and even send some back? I'm honestly not asking to bait you, but to hear your proposal, as I well know you work on this for a living.

I provided you above with my solution. I work voluntarily without pay on this issue, often using my own money. I have been doing it for almost 10 years now, but it is getting more difficult to do here in SC than in NoVA where I used to live. Immigration is the defining issue of our times.

Anyway, I have two teenage kids. They are both white, Christian (well, Catholic!) conservatives. I do not want to see them become a prosecuted minority in their future days.

What will be lost is the vision and values of our Founders. We are being overrun and colonized by the barbarians who took down other great empires. Western Civilization is at the precipice.

I know of no other case in history where the dominant racial or ethnic group voluntarily made itself a minority thru its policies. I fear the new majority will not be as charitable or committed to the Rule of Law as we are. Payback is a bitch.