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To: DiogenesLamp; jmacusa; x; rockrr; rktman; Ruy Dias de Bivar; central_va
jmacusa: "The North didn't go to war to free the slaves Lampster.
The South sure went to war to keep though."

DiogenesLamp: "You keep saying that, but this is factually incorrect.
According to the North, Slavery wasn't under any threat, so your claim doesn't even make sense on the face of it. "

In fact, Deep South Fire Eaters were not in the least reluctant to record that they declared secession in order to protect slavery, which they believed was under threat by "Ape" Lincoln and his Black Republicans.
Republicans at the time said they did not threaten slavery, in the South, only in those western territories which didn't want it.
Constitutionally, that's all they could do.

War began because secessionists in early 1861 demanded military action, if necessary to remove Union troops from Union Fort Sumter, and by April 12 Jefferson Davis decided a military assault was necessary and so ordered it.

Some people argue that Fort Sumter did not begin Civil War, after all, no one was killed in battle.
But people at the time North and South understood that Civil War began at Fort Sumter.
Here are examples of newspaper reports after Fort Sumter's surrender:

  1. ◾"The War Commenced!," Fremont Journal Extra (Fremont, OH), April 13, 1861, Saturday Morning, Page 1, Image 1, col. 1-2.

  2. ◾"Latest War News!! Anderson Surrenders!," Memphis Daily Appeal (Memphis, TN), April 14, 1861, Page 2, Image 2, col. 3-6.

  3. ◾"The Pro-Slavery War, The Bombardment of Fort Sumter," New-York Daily Tribune (New York, NY), April 15, 1861, Page 5, Image 5, col. 1.

  4. ◾"Hostilities Commenced! Bombardment of Fort Sumter!!," Daily Nashville Patriot (Nashville, TN), April 16, 1861, Page 2, Image 2, col. 4.

  5. ◾"Civil War Begun--Fort Sumter Taken," Western Reserve Chronicle (Warren, OH), April 17, 1861, Page 2, Image 2, col. 1-5.

  6. ◾"War Begun!," The Jeffersonian (Stroudsburg, PA), April 18, 1861, Page 2, Image 2, col. 2.

  7. ◾"Fort Sumter Given Up!!," The Anderson Intelligencer (Anderson Court House, SC), April 17, 1861, Page 2, Image 2, col. 2-5.

  8. ◾"War Begun! The Traitors Fire the First Gun!," The Alleghenian (Ebensburg, PA), April 18, 1861, Page 2, Image 2, col. 1.

Point is: in early 1861 there was no doubt in anyone's mind that Deep South slave-holders declared secession to protect slavery and that Civil War started at Fort Sumter.

156 posted on 04/25/2017 7:09:42 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
Republicans at the time said they did not threaten slavery, in the South, only in those western territories which didn't want it. Constitutionally, that's all they could do.

So long as Article IV section II remained in the constitution, they couldn't even do that effectively. So long as the Constitution guaranteed that slaves must be returned back to their owners, and so longas it guaranteed that no state law can interfere with the process, how are you going to stop slavery in the territories?

Under the constitutional law of that time period, it was an impossibility. Only through a constitutional amendment could any law overturn or undermine Article IV Section II.

Funny thing is, they promised them they wouldn't interfere with Slavery, they even went so far as to offer to pass an amendment protecting it in perpetuity, (Corwin Amendment) and yet the first thing they did when they actually achieved power over the South was to do exactly the thing that they said they wouldn't do.

Their stated reasons for doing so was "moral reasons", but I cannot help but notice that it not only evaporates 4.5 billion dollars worth of Capital in the South, it crippled them economically as well. Not only that, it caused a massive surge in political power in Washington because they just added millions of former slaves to the Voting roles and disenfranchised the White citizens.

Money/Power. Money/Power. Money/Power. It all comes back to money and power.

Of course the next thing that happened was massive corruption in Washington DC and that has lingered in that City ever since.

169 posted on 04/25/2017 8:09:54 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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