Posted on 04/13/2017 11:44:28 PM PDT by SteveH
Like all airlines, United has a very specific (and lengthy!) contract for carriage outlining the contractual relationship between the airline and the passenger. It includes a familiar set of provisions for when a passenger may be denied boarding (Rule 25: “Denied Boarding Compensation”).
When a flight is oversold, UA can deny boarding to some passengers, who then receive compensation under specific guidelines. However, Dao was not denied boarding. He was granted boarding and then involuntarily removed from the airplane. What does the contract say about that?
It turns out that the contract has a specific rule regarding “Refusal of Transport” (Rule 21), which lays out the conditions under which a passenger can be removed and refused transport on the aircraft. This includes situations where passengers act in a “disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent” manner, refuse to comply with the smoking policy, are barefoot or “not properly clothed,” as well as many other situations.
There is absolutely no provision for deplaning a seated passenger because the flight is oversold.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.com ...
Thank You! I was beginning to think I was dreaming of seeing/hearing that “other video”! I agree, the Dr was a real jerk and pretty much asked to be manhandled. Not that I agree with what was done to him, but HE was a real drama queen with $$$ signs in his eyes.
‘Did they taze him?’
They tased the 69 yo man to within an inch of his life, at point blank range.
If the government and unions clogged the airline industry with lazy, fat, stupid, vicious, jackbooted thugs...
Actually his fellow passengers have reported that Dao was calm and reasonable, right up until they yanked him out of his sest, concussed his head, broke his teeth and nose, and tased him for good measure.
sest = seat
“WHY did they pick someone to remove who was traveling with FAMILY ? IT MAKES NO SENSE.”
It would make sense only if UA were trying to screw every last penny. By removing Mr Dao, his wife was faced with the unenviable choice of remaining seated (not knowing who next UA was going to ask to deplane) or leaving of her own volition (to be with her husband) and thereby loose out on some of the compensation for her own seat. I have a suspicion UA does/did it like this on purpose.
“At a minimum there was some sort of poor planning by UAL concerning the four employees that needed to go to Nashville. The 4 employees should have been moved to Nashville earlier that day or the previous day, or there should have been a separate jet for the 4 employees, or else room on the plane for four employees before anyone got on the plane.”
Since they were employees couldn’t they have put them in the cargo hold? /s (maybe)
1. Are you right or wrong in any given situation?
2. What is the best course of action to address the issue of whether you are right or wrong?
Another Freeper gave a good example yesterday of a spectator at a sporting event who is removed for violating some kind of stadium or team policy. Let's say security has been called to your section because a bunch of fans are acting up and brawling. Even if you were mistakenly identified as one of the perpetrators, it isn't going to do you a damn bit of good to sit there and refuse to leave the premises on the basis that "you are right." I can guarantee you that your ass is going to be hauled out of there, and the security personnel are going to drag you down a long flight of concrete steps to get you out.
But is the plank made of wood or plastic?
And what if Dao hadn't been a ferry?
(This is why I know I could have been such a good lawyer.)
I agree with you, but I'm not sure how that applies here. The idea that airline passengers have any "freedom and rights" to speak of is laughable. By the time you buckle your seatbelt on a passenger flight you have already gone through one of the most outrageously intrusive processes anyone in human history -- including people who lived in the Stalin-era Soviet Union -- has ever experienced.
An airplane is private property. UA could kick everyone off the plane if they wanted to, hopefully not at cruise altitude.
This would be like a movie theater selling 100 tickets to a show, then deciding at the last minute that they will refund all the money to their paying customers so they can invite 100 VIPs in for a free screening. The business loses a ton of money and antagonizes 100 customers in this scenario. It's a terrible business decision by any objective measure, but that's really their problem to deal with.
You still did not answer the question.
You made and analogy but did not directly connect it to anything the passenger did.
I repeat, how does your analogy apply to the passenger.
Another tidbit of info that makes one wonder what really happened.
snip
Joya Griffin Cummings watched as the passenger, identified as Dr. David Dao, was dragged
off the plane by officials, his face hitting an armrest on the way. His wife, Dr. Teresa Dao,
was sitting a row back and across the aisle, according to Griffin Cummings. She followed her
husband off the plane, but came back to grab their carry-on luggage — not crying, but definitely shook up
Griffin Cummings says David and Teresa initially agreed to volunteer and they deplaned together.
But the couple came back and returned to their seats quickly.
http://people.com/human-interest/wife-united-airlines-passenger-visibly-shaken-after-altercation/
He's very,very sick in the head.His actions on that aircraft prove that beyond a whisper of a doubt.His *past* history proves that he's also a worthless piece of excrement but *that* is a discussion for another day.
If you or I were in that *very* same situation we would have walked off the plane calmly and,as we passed United employees we would have clearly,yet calmly,said "when this is over I'll own this airline".
And if the lawyer we consulted told us that United had *no* legal right to refuse to transport us on that flight we would have sued.If the lawyer told us otherwise we would walked out of his office sulking.
Remember...the ambulance chaser he hired just announced that this pig's experience on that plane was more frightening than was escaping Vietnam.To that I say "F you,you slimy worthless ambulance chaser".
This guy proved on that plane that he is,as Monty Python once put it in one of their skits,"stark raving mad".
Not a nickel would he or his ambulance chaser get from me.
Says who?
I would assume a company in any business would prioritize paying customers over employees or any other non-paying personnel, but I have no idea what their protocols for any given situation may be.
As a privately owned corporation, United made its own terms of service guidelines/rules. They then broke those terms of service egregiously in dealing with Dao.
United has no one to blame but itself. If they wanted the right to kick anyone off at any time for any reason, they should have put that in their ToS.
But they didn’t.
That's why air travel is a miserable experience -- especially if you fly coach. It's really no different than the steerage class on the Titanic.
‘He’s very,very sick in the head.His actions on that aircraft prove that beyond a whisper of a doubt.’
Actually his fellow passengers have reported that Dao was calm and reasonable, right up until they yanked him out of his sest, concussed his head, broke his teeth and nose, and tased him for good measure.
If you've been wrongly arrested/detained or wrongly treated in any way, then you handle it through a clearly established legal process.
This is why the removal of a passenger from an aircraft happens tens of thousands of times in any given year, and you don't have bloodied, bruised and broken passengers walking around airport terminals every day.
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