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To: OIFVeteran

“The U.S. Army’s official name for it is the war of rebellion, which I think is most accurate.”

I think it’s more accurate to call it “The War Between The States” because it was a “disagreement” among the participants (the States) of the compact to form a Union of states. And because everyone seems to give too much credit or blame to Lincoln when it should be given to the Northern States.

What could Lincoln do on his own? Could he send in the FBI or the ATF or have the IRS go after the secessionists? Some will say he sent in the army but someone up thread said the Regular Army at the time was 16,000 strong and, while I seem to recall it was closer to 30,000, in either case it wasn’t enough.

The Union force at First Manassas numbered more than the Regular Army because of Volunteers (not part of the Regular Army) from the Northern States. Note that when Grant was promoted to Major General he was promoted to Major General of Volunteers and was made Major General of the Regular Army later. I believe that without the support of the Northern States the war couldn’t have been fought and Lincoln couldn’t have done much about it.

“The US had an election for president per the constitution, with no accusations of fraud or other tampering. Southern states, starting with South Carolina, decided they didn’t like the outcome of the election and decided to take their toys and go home.”

I would say that the Democratic Party lost the election of 1860 and had a hissy fit. As I recall, all the Southern State governments were filled with Democrats. Further, Democrats in the North tried to undermine the war effort.

I also think that at it’s core (not the Average Joe party member), the Democratic Party is still working toward the dissolution of the United States.

I state the above as opinion for which I expect to receive abuse to which I may or may not respond. Time for bed.


213 posted on 04/15/2017 11:35:57 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the depth and breadth of their ignorance. Cursed be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle; OIFVeteran
KrisKrinkle: "everyone seems to give too much credit or blame to Lincoln when it should be given to the Northern States."

I think you lack an accurate sense of the sequence of events here, so let's review:

  1. In 1860 the Union army can be summarized as follows:

    "When the American Civil War began in April 1861, there were only 16,000 men in the U.S. Army, and of these many Southern officers resigned and joined the Confederate army.
    The U.S. Army consisted of ten regiments of infantry, four of artillery, two of cavalry, two of dragoons, and three of mounted infantry.
    The regiments were scattered widely.
    Of the 197 companies in the army, 179 occupied 79 isolated posts in the West, and the remaining 18 manned garrisons east of the Mississippi River, mostly along the Canada–United States border and on the Atlantic coast."

    In other words: prior to Fort Sumter (4/12/1861) the Union army was simply not an effective fighting force.

  2. February 18, 1861 in Jefferson Davis' inaugural address he promised there would be war if Confederate "integrity" was "assailed".

  3. March 3, 1861 before Lincoln's inauguration, Davis ordered preparations for military assault on Union Fort Sumter.

  4. March 4, in Lincoln's inaugural he promised not to "assail" Confederates so they could not have war unless they themselves started it.

  5. March 6 the Confederate congress authorized raising up a 100,000 man Confederate army, Union army still 16,000 widely scattered.
    Confederate rosters were quickly filled in those days.

  6. April 15, after Fort Sumter President Lincoln called up 75,000 3-month volunteers the first regiments of which began arriving in Washington, DC the following week.

  7. April 19, Lincoln ordered General Scott's "Anaconda Plan" blockade to begin.

  8. April 23, Jefferson Davis offered military aid to Confederates fighting in Union Missouri, and Union officers captured in Texas are held as prisoners of war.

  9. April 29, Confederate congress granted war powers to Davis.

  10. May 3, Lincoln called up another 42,000 3-year volunteers bringing the total US Army to 156,000 called.

  11. May 6, Confederacy formally declared war on the United States.

  12. May 9, Confederate congress authorized another 400,000 Confederate troops, now 500,000 in total.

  13. June 10, Confederates suffered their first soldier killed in battle, at Big Bethel.

  14. July 4 Lincoln called up another 400,000 troops making the Union total now 556,000.

  15. July 21, the first major battle, Manassas pitted 36,000 Union (18,000 engaged) against 34,000 Confederates (18,000 engaged) producing 4,700 total casualties.

Point is: In early 1861 Confederates were preparing for war weeks & months before Washington, DC was seriously thinking of it.

KrisKrinkle: "I would say that the Democratic Party lost the election of 1860 and had a hissy fit.
As I recall, all the Southern State governments were filled with Democrats.
Further, Democrats in the North tried to undermine the war effort."

It's built into Democrats' political DNA, since they began as the anti-Federalist faction opposed to ratification of the US Constitution and have been trying to bend it to suit their own purposes ever since.

KrisKrinkle: "I also think that at it’s core (not the Average Joe party member), the Democratic Party is still working toward the dissolution of the United States."

Well said, I also think that at it’s core (not the Average Joe party member), the Democratic Party is still working toward the dissolution of the United States.

223 posted on 04/16/2017 10:40:29 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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