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To: BroJoeK

Do you realize how long man accurately reported the earth was the center of our universe? How many people where chased out of ‘science’ because they said the sun was at the center? Plato wrote about it, so it had been around in 4th century BC. It wasn’t defeated for about 2000 years after that. So evolution is in its infancy still if it has only been around for 100-200 years.

The problem here is you supplant the story God gave in Genesis 1. Here He clearly shows what happen. He is the only one that actually witnessed what happen. It is better to have faith in His word “without proof”, than faith in man’s ability with unverifiable proof from speculation and assumptions.

You are welcome to stand with the world, with the wisdom of man.... but I must share with you why that is a bad idea. First God said His foolishness is greater than man’s wisdom (I Cor. 1:25). A person can’t serve two masters (Matt. 6:24) and for those that love the world, the love of the Father is not in them (1 John 2:15). Lastly, for any Christian, it is an idolatry of man’s wisdom to place this belief ahead of what God said.

If supporting evolution is what it takes to be a scientist, then I want no part of that club. I am happy with being an “anti-scientist” as I will not be an “anti-Christ”.


70 posted on 02/01/2017 11:09:21 AM PST by VaeVictis (~Woe to the Conquered~)
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To: VaeVictis
VaeVictis: "Do you realize how long man accurately reported the earth was the center of our universe?
How many people where chased out of ‘science’ because they said the sun was at the center?"

Of course, I "get" all that, but why do you conveniently forget that those who most strongly and violently opposed science in the days of, say, Galileo, were people who believed his radical scientific ideas opposed Biblical teachings?
And, in fact, that's just what you do today, so why try to turn the tables?

And remember, the ancient ideas of an Earth centered Universe were not overthrown by some new religion, but rather by the data and theories of men who followed the evidence wherever it lead them.
And that is precisely the standing of evolution theory today.
It exists because, and only because, that's what the data from over 100 years of study tells us.
Literally, there is no other natural explanation for what we see.

VaeVictis: "The problem here is you supplant the story God gave in Genesis 1.
Here He clearly shows what happen."

Sorry, but that's simply not true.
The Bible says nothing -- zero, zip, nada -- about how physically God created anything.
One of the very few clues it gives us says that God began with dirt to make mankind.
Dirt to man is also what evolution tells us, so I have no problem with it.

VaeVictis: "It is better to have faith in His word 'without proof', than faith in man’s ability with unverifiable proof from speculation and assumptions."

Sorry again, but you are very confused.
"Faith" is never the appropriate response to scientific theories.
Theories are just models, ideas confirmed by evidence, but always subject to rejection or revision when new data or better ideas come along.
We do not "believe" theories, we merely, at most, provisionally accept them as pretty good ideas, pending further analysis.

In the case of basic evolution theory, it has been confirmed innumerable times by literal mountains of evidence, and never seriously falsified.
So basic evolution theory is on pretty firm ground.
However there is always the possibility that tomorrow someone might confirm evidence which seriously falsifies some portion, or all of evolution theory, and then scientists would go to work trying to understand and devise better theories.

That's how science works, and has now for centuries.

VaeVictis: "but I must share with you why that is a bad idea. First God said His foolishness is greater than man’s wisdom (I Cor. 1:25). "

No such Biblical references point at natural-science, but rather at ancient religious "wisdom" -- gnosis -- a spiritual knowledge, not science.
In fact, science itself makes no claims to "wisdom" or even "truth", nor does it demand "faith" or "belief".
Science is the opposite of religion, and that's why I say the Bible does not oppose it.

VaeVictis: "A person can’t serve two masters (Matt. 6:24) and for those that love the world, the love of the Father is not in them (1 John 2:15)."

But science itself is not about "loving the world", rather it's about understanding God's natural creations.
As such, historically many scientists were clergy or strong believers in the Bible.
So there is nothing inherent in natural-science which "loves the world" or opposes God.

VaeVictis: "Lastly, for any Christian, it is an idolatry of man’s wisdom to place this belief ahead of what God said."

Once again: science itself makes no claims to "wisdom" and has no requirements for "belief" or "faith".
Science is strictly a methodology for understanding the natural realm and is in no way, shape or form opposed to God's Word.

VaeVictis: "If supporting evolution is what it takes to be a scientist, then I want no part of that club.
I am happy with being an 'anti-scientist' as I will not be an 'anti-Christ'."

But you are presenting a false choice.
There is no need to reject one or the other, both properly understood, are acceptable.
Sure, if you chose to reject one or the other, that is your choice, but it is not necessary for those who love both God and His creations.
Remember, in Genesis 1, God Himself seven times pronounced His works "good", and that should be good enough for us.

71 posted on 02/01/2017 3:49:10 PM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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