Posted on 10/05/2016 5:38:13 AM PDT by Kaslin
Mike Pence won. It wasn't especially close in my book. A few thoughts:
(1) Kaine was peevish and annoying with his incessant interruptions, to which Pence responded calmly -- occasionally evincing forcefulness, at other times appearing amused. Donald Trump's running mate also made a point of highlighting Kaine's painfully rehearsed lines, mocking them gently -- and not so gently -- each time. On style, this was a clock-cleaning.
(2) On policy substance, Pence was fluid and prepared. Kaine was also familiar with his briefing book. It appeared as though Kaine was instructed to raise anti-Trump attack lines and talking points at every single opportunity. If that was his goal, mission accomplished. Others have made these observations, but I'll amplify them: Kaine did not seem interested in winning this debate. He seemed interested in emptying his rhetorical clip of opposition research on the man at the top of his counterpart's ticket. And Pence declined, repeatedly, to answer specific charges and challenges about things Trump has done and said. He made a choice not to defend the indefensible. These dynamics were 'sore-thumb' obvious. A fair question some have asked: Was Pence so polished, informed, relaxed and smooth that he only accentuated the reality that Trump is none of those things?
(3) While Kaine was constantly on offense against Trump, occasionally defending Mrs. Clinton with brief talking points, Pence picked his spots. He prosecuted a tough case against the Clinton Foundation's foreign donations. He raised her email scandal on multiple occasions, including in the context of cyber security, where Trump whiffed last week. And over and over again, he would not let Kaine get away with the ridiculous claim that the Iran deal ended that anti-American regime's nuclear program. It does nothing of the sort, and effectively guarantees that Iran will be a threshold nuclear state when the agreement's restrictions automatically expire. Even President Obama has more or less admitted as much. Kaine kept advancing a mischaracterization, and Pence kept calling him on it. The Indiana Governor's decision to go criticize Hillary Clinton's extreme views on abortion was also a great move, especially since he underscored Kaine's politically-motivated reversals on those questions, causing the Virginia Senator to squirm in his seat.
(4) The moderator was pilloried by viewers online throughout the evening, and I agree that she seemed inclined to cut Pence off as he was getting into the meat of Clinton's various scandals. But in her defense, she repeatedly called Kaine out for interrupting and asked pointed, substantive questions of both candidates, including two queries pertaining to the national debt and entitlements. Maybe I'm an outlier here, but I thought she was fine overall, even if she didn't pick her "enforcement" spots perfectly.
(5) I'm not sure any of this matters. This election is the Trump and Clinton show, and while Pence was effective at prosecuting a tough case against the Democratic nominee and (sometimes painfully) side-stepping challenges about Trump's long rap sheet of statements, Kaine remained relentlessly on-message as an attack dog. That may have frustrated and turned off many viewers, but negativity works. If Donald Trump wants to reverse the self-inflicted negative momentum he's experiencing in this race, he's going to have to do so himself on Sunday. Pence passed this test with flying colors, but he's not the man in the spotlight. The Hoosier State Republican did everything he could to help his ticket, and he may have created a favorable and stabilizing impression, but the undercard debate cannot and will not be decisive. I'll leave you with this. Decisive:
Who won tonight's vice-presidential debate?
• 22 say Mike Pence
• 4 say Tim Kaine#VPDebate— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) October 5, 2016
And closer, but a win:
CNN poll debate watchers
48 Pence
42 Kaine— Sam Stein (@samsteinhp) October 5, 2016
Good prevailed over evil....and I mean EVIL!
I’m listening to NPR right now. A voter veing interviewed in a roundtable just said that She hates trump, but last night her respect increased for him because he had the capability to choose someone like Pence as his running mate.
And when asked it it would affect her ability to vote for trump, she said, “absolutely”.
Looks like that she woke up.
Goes to show Trump knows how to put together a great team.
Bump
I’ve been saying, on liberal sites, that The hatred of Hillary runs so deep that people are just looking for an “excuse” to believe that Trump is not the wild nutjob the left is making him out to be. And once they accept that he’s not batsh** crazy, they’ll vote against Hillary by casting their vote for him. This included Bernie supporters and a lot of people in the middle.
That excuse was started with his performance in Mexico as well as his debate with Hillary. It was HUGELY boosted with this debate.
I think this woman reflected the attitude of a LOT of people.
It sure does
And, for those who still cannot bring themselves to vote for Trump, do what so many of us did in 2008, and vote for the running mate.
It’s fun that Kain will not have a chance to redeem himself.
I told you Newtopians that Pence would be a great choice, exactly what Trump needs
The left’s assault on Trump for saying Putin is a better leader than BO is akin to the left’s assault on Limbaugh for saying that he hopes BO is not “successful “.
Let’s break it down for the dim-witted, willfully obtuse progressives:
Yes, we all hope BO is not successful in his quest to fundamentally transform our country.
Yes, Putin is a better leader for his country than BO is for ours. (I wish it weren’t true, too, but it is).
There is no doubt of this. That’s why we need a change.
I was thinking about this this morning. Most people don’t watch the VP debate. But this is a different election. Almost as many watched this as much as the Trump Clinton debate. They did because both candidates are not that popular. They watched to see who the back up would be. And Pence nailed it. BIG TIME!!!!!!!! My two cents.
We are one in opinion on this one.
“for those who still cannot bring themselves to vote for Trump, do what so many of us did in 2008, and vote for the running mate.”
Bump that.
No shame in admitting that while I voted against Obama by voting McCain, I was really voting _for_ Palin by proxy.
All I can say is that I spent last weekend in a “Blue” area of Florida - Leon, Franklin, and Wakulla counties in FL.
There were NO Hillary! signs or bumper stickers. None.
There were Trump signs. There was even a Gary Johnson sign. There were still Bernie stickers.
But no Hillary signs or stickers.
I think this election will hinge on two things - enthusiasm and vote fraud. The Democrats don’t have the enthusiasm, so all they have left is vote fraud.
Tim Kaine showed people what "batsh** crazy" looks like. Trump, at his worst, looks totally sane compared to that lunatic.
This is a common phenomenon in my experience this year. I have a lot of anecdotal evidence that people who are only so-so about Trump will vote for him to get Pence.
***I think this election will hinge on two things - enthusiasm and vote fraud. The Democrats don’t have the enthusiasm, so all they have left is vote fraud.***
Nailed it!
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