The man who got shot, Terence Crutcher, on the left, pictured with his father.
Posted on 09/20/2016 9:28:48 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
It’s not clear what happened in the last few fateful moments but some facts are undisputed. Crutcher was unarmed, Tulsa’s police chief admitted yesterday, and had no weapon in his car. He had his hands up as he walked slowly away from the police and towards his SUV with an officer, Betty Shelby, trailing behind him. As he reached the driver-side door, Shelby and another officer stopped a few feet behind the SUV and trained their pistols on him. They were joined by two more cops. Then things took a turn: At some point in the next few moments, as Crutcher stood beside the door, the second officer tasered him and then Shelby fired one shot at him, killing him.
Why was Crutcher’s SUV in the middle of the road? The Times says Shelby responded to the scene after “after the police received reports of an abandoned vehicle blocking a road”:
In an interview, Officer Shelby’s lawyer, Scott Wood, said the officer had thought that Mr. Crutcher had a weapon. Mr. Wood said Mr. Crutcher had acted erratically, refused to comply with several orders, tried to put his hand in his pocket and reached inside his car window before he was shot.
Chief Jordan said Officer Shelby had encountered Mr. Crutcher and his vehicle while en route to another call and requested backup because she was “not having cooperation” from him. Officer Turnbough and his partner responded to Officer Shelby’s request for backup. It was the dashboard camera in their patrol car that recorded the shooting.
There are two recordings, one from a helicopter plus the dashboard cam video, both of which are featured in the clip below. Neither one is close enough, though, to give you a good idea of exactly what’s going on once Crutcher gets to the SUV, and the dashboard angle is obstructed by the group of cops gathered at the back of the vehicle. Did Crutcher reach through the window into the car — a police spokesman says he did — and did officers on the scene warn him specifically not to do that? If he’d been uncooperative to that point and “erratic,” the police may have thought he was on something (one of the cops in the chopper speculates about that during the clip) and worried that he was going for a gun. That would have been nuts with four cops ready to fire at him just feet away, but “erratic” people can do nutty things.
Even so, Crutcher makes no sudden moves in the clip. His hands, as noted, are in the air. The cops had a nonlethal means of subduing him available, the taser, and they put it to use, raising the question of why Shelby felt obliged to shoot. Did the taser not bring him down? Even if it didn’t, with no hard evidence that Crutcher was armed, was Shelby obliged to at least catch a glimpse of a weapon before deciding to kill him, just in case?
The audio of what the cops said to Crutcher and what he said back may end up being more valuable than the video at trial, assuming that that audio exists. The DOJ has already opened an investigation into the shooting. Crutcher is survived by four kids.
An background on this?
Regardless, their site is full of mal-ware, and the video in question loads with some fake Flash message in the middle of it that I have zero interest in clicking on.
Here is a *MUCH* better site that has both videos, in larger format and a more intelligent write up:
>> Was she supposed to wait and see what surprise he was going to pull out of his car? <<
Ideally. She has her gun already trained on him. I’m not calling her a murderer. And God knows his erratic behavior brought this on himself. I’m just saying it’d be good thing if being stupid didn’t get you killed.
You stand very still and ask, “which order do you want me to obey?” Been there. See my post above.
The man who got shot, Terence Crutcher, on the left, pictured with his father.
Note: when getting my ID, I asked permission for every action I took. Example: “Ok, I am going to get my wallet. Is that OK? Can the officer behind me see my hands?” And I moved VERY slowly.
No, IMO.
you said it better than I did
What was she supposed to do? wait to see what he was going to pull out of the car?
He was orered NOT TO approach the car...
There was another video of a cop who stop this big fat mexican dude, and the guy just kept slowly moving towards the officer... the officer warned him 1 dozen time NOT to approach an to stay by his vhicle, and the guy kept coming... what do people think was going to happen once he got next to the officer? Or was the officer supposed to keep circling around the car playing games with the guy? So... he shot him... and was NOT charged (correctly)
Well, let’s see...in this case, do you think any were telling him to backup to his vehicle, then reach inside?
Not “cops.” ONE female cop.
I'm certainly not saying it was the case here, but I can imagine a situation where one cop yells "hands up" while another shouts "let's see some ID." So the suspect goes for his ID, and gets shot.
Now, a calm and collected person would just freeze, with his hands up. But few people are calm and collected in these situations.
“Shot and Killed by Cops While He Had His Hands Up”
BS... the position of his hands can not be seen in the video when he is shot.
It sounds like you're talking about Erik Scott who was shot at a Henderson, NV Costco about 6 years ago. There were all kinds of investigations there but the cops got off.
Why did she pull up on a broken down car with a gun drawn? Are broken down car’s largely dangerous?
So... you’re telling us you look like a serial rapist?;-)
Never heard of the Tacoma incident he/she is referring to...
The Crutcher video looks less problematic to the trained eye while knowing if it is a lawful use of deadly force there will have to be many more pertinent facts supporting it that come out later.
But no matter whether it was lawful and proper or not the officer who fired the shot is screwed because the chief of police has already used verbiage in his statements that leaves no doubt what his personal opinion is even though he probably doesn’t have all the facts yet himself.
Is it possible the officer was dealing with a man in some sort of mental crisis or on a mind-altering drug? Yes it is possible but it is up to the officer to explain what was in their mind and what the other facts are because the video doesn’t show any direct immediate threat to the untrained eye.
The main reason I’m reserving judgment is a 911 caller said the guy appeared to be high on a drug, I’m not referring to the helicopter pilot, but one of the original callers to the 9-1-1 Center. And what person in there good mind has officers pointing guns and tasers at them and doesn’t listen to instructions and goes back to a car to reach inside for something?
That makes me wonder if there is more to the story that leads the officer who fired the gunshot to believe she was in imminent danger.
Yes, that was the incident I was referencing. Thanks.
In dealing with any cop when on.is in a law enforcement situation as the enforceee is to keep it from getting to where the cop feels impelled to draw a gun. Otherwise, one is a finger twitch away from being dead or permanently maimed. IMHO that’s probably why so many M&P weapons have two stage triggers.
Small stature lady cops don't really have any way of dealing with big black guys except shooting them, which to me argues they shouldn't be out patrolling alone like she was. Maybe keep them on desk jobs or working with woman and children, but not out solo on the front line of patrol. (Of course if you are a 6' 240lb Samoan woman, go for it.)
Many black people are brought up to disrespect police.
Here is a classic: black boy vs. little latina cop-ette
Being stupid didn’t get him killed. His disregard for obeying lawful commands, and her right to not be forced to stand there and be killed is what got him killed.
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