Posted on 08/04/2016 5:30:15 PM PDT by amorphous
You never know what you would do until you are there. It’s impossible to forecast.
Could be someone at the CIA is angry about McStupid’s Isis ties.
If he had told the truth, I would not hold it against him. But since he lied to puff himself up and tear others down, I hold it against him.
There are many former POWs who hate McCain’s guts. I’ve read that every injury he got was from the ejection. He, himself, said he wasn’t expecting it to be so violent. He’s always claimed his injuries came from torture. Again, many of his fellow POWs say different.
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Let’s see.... He destroyed or badly damaged at least five Navy jet aircraft he was piloting. He disobeyed orders and flew too low on his last flight and was shot down by a SAM.
He ejected and landed in an active rice paddy, whereupon the workers beat the crap out of him and broke many of his bones before the NVA soldiers arrived. The NVA took him and they put him in several casts after trying to reset the broken bones. He DIDN’T get the broken bones from torture. He MAY have “sang” to his captors and stated their propaganda just to continue to receive good medical treatment and food.
That’s one scenario of what I’ve read/heard over the years.
Regardless, there are no accounts of him doing something “heroic”. JUST serving in the military does not automatically make someone a “hero”.
The term “hero” has been so overly applied in the past several decades that it denigrates the military, police, firemen and regular everyday citizens who really DO perform actions that are above and beyond the norm and deserve the term “hero”.
...Apologies to everyone for the lengthy rant. I just get mad when the term is overused in a way that it’s like everyone on a team getting a participation trophy.
Is Jeremiah Denton the one who built houses in his mind to stay sane in the POW prison?
He had NOTHING to do with the cause. The fire was started by a Starboard aft Aircraft having a rocket go off. McCain was forward Port Side behind the aft JBD and catapults with his planes exhaust blowing over the side. Wrong angles, impossible scenario, and that fire is the most vetted fire in Naval history. The aircraft across the other side of the Flight Deck had the errant launch that set the fire off and it hit McCain and CDR White's aircraft.
WIKI the fire and look at the aircraft spotting chart and yes it is consistent with the raw FD camera footage shown ALL SAILORS in Basic Training who enlist in the Navy and is again shown ALL sailors who are in fire fighting and Damage Control School. I've seen it several times myself.
I can't stand the man but he did not cause a carrier fire. Poor communication, less than modern equipment, and No HI-CAP system contributed to it. That fire changed Navy firefighting techniques and technology.
Never having been in the situation, is it not true that anything of operational value is pretty much void after a relatively short amount of time has passed? In other words, when a guy is missing or known to be captured, anything he knows is considered compromised and plans, codes, or anything along those lines are changed. In that case, talking doesn’t really do any harm. The kind of propaganda in this broadcast, on the other hand, is demoralizing, but I doubt if it does any lasting harm to the war effort. I don’t even like being restrained for a moment, so I don’t know what I’d do.
Yep
Really? Then how did McCain's destroyed aircraft magically appear on camera footage in the spot shown on a chart determined by the Air Boss before the incident? The ZUNI launch was aft and starboard by a plane angled forward pointed toward McCain and White's planes. McCain was located forward port side and his engine exhaust as well as the plane from the plane it launched from pointed over the side. There was no coverup in that fire. The Navy shows it all raw and unedited. This is a link for the chart. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/CVA-59_fire_aft_deck_plan.png Notice how they are parked?
Not a fan at all of slimy Juan McCain. The recording I heard at this link is complete coerced BS by the enemy to demoralize the captive with express purpose of demoralizing US troops.
I have no problem with his service and hold great respect for same, but we are way beyond that period of his life. The McCain I know and see today is a despicable self serving NWO Globalist. I hope he is Cantorized and prevented from further “serving” in the US Senate.
They’ve been after it for months, so had they obtained it six months ago, you would have had it then.
The timing is just a matter of obtaining it recently.
I think Trump was right. Just because a pilot gets shot down doesn’t make him a hero. He could have engine failure and crash land. That’s not the actions of a hero.
McCain was a hot dog. I’ve also read that by giving the NVA flying instructions they were able to shoot down more aircraft. In my opinion he’s the opposite of a hero.
And you’re right. The term “hero” is handed out too often for doing nothing. It’s like Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing.
Another thing that pisses me off is the flay constantly flying at half staff. It doesn’t mean anything anymore.
Kind of what Trump said about McCain’s being a hero. I always thought Trump was also coming from a POV as a New Yorker who’d seen and known people (heroes) who rushed into burning buildings & sacrificed their lives at 9-11. I considered his comments about McCain were from that pov. Maybe Trump knew more than I thought!
Scuttlebutt about a POW’s behavior is run of the mill rumors. I did some digging and found this list which got posted in FR several times https://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/chrndeb08/mccain092608pr300.html One of the gentlemen on this list I know for 100% certainty was one of the longest held POW’s and was in the Hanoi Hilton. He got shot down. Yes to me the man I know was a hero. His jettison messed him up good you could still see evidence of his injuries as he walked down the passageway. I think if something had been serious amiss about McCain’s conduct while a POW this man would not have endorsed him. The man was my C.O. I served under a few years after he was released and I enlisted. Politically I have no use for McCain. I think he’ll do anything to try and stay in office. A lot of stuff gets posted like the Forestall fire which is pure B.S. and been debunked over and over.
Parts of it were broadcast by our own media in ‘69 I heard them then. Supposedly there were 6 broadcasts made. Could explain why he was the only POW to weigh more when released than when captured.
Several years ago I read s good and very thorough article about the Forrestal fire nd McCain. Sorry I can’t find it now. The author did debunk the “ Wet start” rumor based in accident reporting. However what I remember is that McCains aircraft released its ordnance as McCain and other pilots struggled to get out of their jets.
The resulting explosion killed the pilot of the jet next to him who was out and attempting to flee, and killed ground crew who were trying to help the pilots and fight the flames. The accident report would eventually attribute this ordnance release to the heat and flames, However the authors gathered info suggested the ordnance was released due to pilot error in the panic to escape his jet.
Two things that made me go hmmmm were McCains failure in his memoirs and in all the years since to ever mention name or acknowledge in any way the men who died in and around the aircraft next to him , and McCains rather curious urgency to get himself OFF the ship while it was still burning and everyone was still being pressed into emergency oversight of firefighting and casualty accounting ...
McCain hitched a ride to Saigon with the first reporter who flew out to report the accident and stayed in Saigon for some time, describing it as “ much needed R and R” before eventually rejoining his crippled ship I don’t remember how much longer. The author could not determine whether McCain left the ship with authorization to do so, only that he was the first uninjured officer to do so.
But he’s a hero and Trump was wrong /s
The bombs that blew up killing the crew came from the jet that got hit by the missile according to the accident report. I don’t recall anything that said McCain pickled his ordnance prior to getting out of his jet.
I’ve never been in a spot where I had to get out of my aircraft because it was sitting in a pool of burning JP, but I’m pretty sure the only thing I would be thinking is how do I unstrap and get out without becoming a screaming alpha. A**holes and elbows all the way!
Incidentally, he was in the jet next to the one that got hit. He’s one lucky SOB just to have gotten out alive.
As for getting off the boat, he only could have gotten off after it got back in port and the boat never would have been allowed in if it was still burning, it went to Cubi Point afterwards Not sure how long it took, but the fire was out well before it got there
He may have been transferred to the hospital ship that took the wounded off, but I’m not sure.
I understand everyone’s dislike for the man for sure and he had quite the reputation in and out of the Navy, but he’s being blamed for a lot of stuff he simply didn’t do.
” the accident report”
Oh yes, no political wrangling ever goes into those when the Pacifuc Commanders son is involved
Not going to debate the mechanics of likelihood of accidental ordnance release from an A-4 being caused by the burning aircraft next to it. if I can find the article again I will post links. It was thorough and used a lot of interviews . The pilot next to McCain made it out but was killed by the bomb blast ...which then set off other chain reaction of events. Got to wonder if McCain ever visited the widow. He never even mentioned the pilots name in his memoirs
Yes McCain left the ship and camped out for a while in Saigon - the reporter who gave him a lift reported on this
Not for accident reports. JAG investigations, maybe.
There was enough evidence to determine what happened and his pickling his load was not in the report. It also was never discussed in th FF classes I attended over the years either. If McCain had done something like that, I’m sure some of the more salty instructors would have talked about it.
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