Catholic Church v. Israel

http://www.conservativenewsandviews.com ^ | 7/27/16 | Paul Eidelberg

[SkyPilot]

There are not two covenants, one for Jews and one for Gentiles.

There are not two covenants for salvation. I made that very clear in my post.

See my tag line.

But the covenant that God made with Abraham is forever. God does not make promises and then break them.

Many Christian churches, including the Catholic church, teach Replacement Theology, or Supersessionism.

Historically, statements on behalf of the Roman Catholic Church have claimed its ecclesiastical structures to be a fulfillment and replacement of Jewish ecclesiastical structures (see also Jerusalem as an allegory for the Church). As recently as 1965 Vatican Council II affirmed, "the Church is the new people of God," without intending to make "Israel according to the flesh", the Jewish people, irrelevant in terms of eschatology (see "Roman Catholicism," below). Modern Protestants hold to a range of positions on the topic.

This is a thoroughly un-Biblical and wrong stance. Israel is still Israel, and God has never abandoned them. Moreover (and this is especially significant), Christians would do well to heed the words in Scripture:

Romans 11: 17 - 21

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

Through the Mosaic Covenant, God will fulfill His promises to Israel, and also usher in the Millennial Kingdom. Again, God has huge plans for Israel in the coming Tribulation. In fact, the Tribulation serves three essential purposes: to deliver God's wrath upon an unbelieving world, to bring those who were too stubborn before to come to Him during this horrible crisis, and to reconcile the Jewish people to Messiah.

Is any human being saved apart from Jesus? No. Are Noah and Enoch in Hell?

No. They were saved just as we are: through faith. We are in the church age - salvation is available to all through Christ. But that door is about to close (in my opinion). Christ can still save during the Tribulation, but most, if not all, believers will have to suffer incredibly and give their very lives for their faith.

[SkyPilot]

Not only that, but Israel and The Church have two totally different destinies. You can really gauge the Spiritual Health of somebody by simply asking them about Israel and letting them talk about it. You denounce Israel, and you’re messing with the Apple of God’s Eye.

Completely agree brother.

Jan Markell (herself a saved Jew) played audio of the Christian left who arrogantly held a "Christ at the Checkpoint" conference in Bethlehem. The entire speaker lineup threw poison words at the Jewish people, and spread lies about the poor, poor "Palestinians."

It was painful to listen to.

[SkyPilot]

So does the Catholic church have a position on the Nation of Israel??? It must have since it recognizes so called Palestine as state of its own...If so, you can perhaps give us the official position of the Catholic Church on the Nation of Israel...Will Israel ultimately end up in the promised land as God stated??? Will the promised land end up being divided with the so called Palestinians and Jordanians, the Iraqis and Syrians???

Vatican rejects “chosen people” claim, calls on Israel to end “occupation”

The Vatican Against Israel

Pope Francis is aligning himself against Israel

[SkyPilot]

Jorge Mario Bergoglio is the strongest candidate alive today for the False Prophet of Revelation.

NEW WORLD ORDER: Pope Francis Calls For Israel To Give Up Their Nuclear Weapons

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/category/catholic-church/

[Mrs. Don-o]

You are mixing up two quite different categories: Catholic doctrine and papal diplomacy. The former has to do with faith and morals. The latter has to do with politics, state policy.<

The Catholic Church has no doctrine in Israel.

Vatican City, as a state, has diplomatic relations. These diplomatic relations have no religious authority, and historically have been as enlightened or wrong-headed or inspiring or deplorable as the statecraft of other political entity.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Typo. I meant to say "The Catholic Church has no doctrine on Israel."

[dp0622]

Most scholars now think Revelations was written about the apostles at the time it was written.

Anyway, “I shall come like a thief in the night” means nothing to you tea readers.

How dare you contend that you can decipher the future or who is whom, regarding false prophets are anti christs.

Why dont you live life instead of trying to know what only God knows.

He is dying laughing as you try to predict the future that only HE KNOWS.

[SkyPilot]

Most scholars now think Revelations was written about the apostles at the time it was written.

I have no idea if it is "most" Biblical scholars, but Prederists believe that. And they are wrong in my opinion. I base that on the Scriptures.

Anyway, “I shall come like a thief in the night” means nothing to you tea readers.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I believe Christ's words absolutely. He was referring to the Rapture in that and other passages. He was certainly not referring to His literal Second coming at the Battle of Armageddon.

We know precisely when that will be during the End Times time line. To the day, once the events of Daniel's 70th week begin.

Moreover, Christ referred to the Rapture in these passages:

Matthew 24: 37 - 41

37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

How dare you contend that you can decipher the future or who is whom, regarding false prophets are anti christs. Why dont you live life instead of trying to know what only God knows.

The Bible is 27% prophecy, most of it not yet fulfilled. God gave us prophecy to prepare us, physically and spiritually. Furthermore, following Christ's words that He can come again at any time dictates how believers are to live their lives. You use harsh and angry words at me, for following what the Bible actually says about us not walking in darkness.

13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

He is dying laughing as you try to predict the future that only HE KNOWS.

So now you claim to speak for God in that He mocks me and other believers for waiting for His coming in the Rapture?

Wow.

Just wow. This is not some flat earth doctrine I am speaking about. It is in the Bible. People can debate if the Rapture (Harpazo, snatching away of his bride) is pre, mid, or post Tribulation, but it is in Scripture.

I think you better start studying the Bible, ignore what Jorge is telling you, and turn your heart over to Christ in humility.

[MHGinTN]

How dare you tell them the truth! ... A strong sign that we are at the end times, when they rail on you for telling them the truth!

[Roman_War_Criminal]

I am starting to believe that the Christian left will not only be left behind, but be given over to the deception during the Tribulation since they really do not believe in the truth?

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12

I love Jan Markell and always look forward to her articles.
She truly is an amazing Woman of God!

[Roman_War_Criminal]

I think it’s obvious as to why there is such hatred for the Rapture.

Satan knows his time is short, but when this event happens, his hour-glass has officially started and will run out very soon there after.

What better way to try to deflect, denounce, and distract gullible unsaved humanity than to declare that it won’t ever happen?

Even among Christians the debate is harsh.

[MHGinTN]

There will be NO Christians left after the Rapture. There will be lots of mouthers who were never known by The Savior because they were never born from above via the simple method JESUS explained to Nicodemus in John 3.

When one is born from above, by GOD's Promise a spark of HIS Holy Spirit is placed int he newly cleansed soul of that believer / faither. As that one lives, being gradually raise up in the way that they should go, the spark refines the inward spirit of the man / woman / child. At the last Trumpet and Call of the Archangel, that spark zone will resonate instantly, changing the entire tissue base of that redeemed one, such that their body will no longer be in the same sapcetime coordinate system as those unsaved around them. Jesus described the event in Matthew's Gospel. He also introduced the Rapture TRUTH in John 14 when speaking to His disciples about going to prepare a place for them (and us) and coming back to get them to take them to the place He is preparing in the Father's House. All transformed faithers will be caught up into the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. Seven years later, we will return with Him for the final destruction of all unbelievers and the devil and hid henchghouls.

[kearnyirish2]

“You can really gauge the Spiritual Health of somebody by simply asking them about Israel and letting them talk about it. You denounce Israel, and you’re messing with the Apple of God’s Eye.”

That is an absurd position; today’s secular state of Israel complete with gay parades is not the Israel that God granted victories to thousands of years ago.

[MHGinTN]

True, not the same ... but I believe GOD has brought the nation back to face the time of Jacob’s troubles.

[Iscool]

The ‘Church’ is coming out of the closet...

[Iscool]

You are mixing up two quite different categories: Catholic doctrine and papal diplomacy. The former has to do with faith and morals. The latter has to do with politics, state policy.

I think they are deeply entwined...It is morally reprehensible from a Christian perspective to claim the bible is wrong and Israel no longer owns the promised land God gave them...

Your church has sided with the Palestinians in a two state solution...Robbing Israel of their promised land...I'd say that's an official position by your religion...

[Iscool]

He is dying laughing as you try to predict the future that only HE KNOWS.

God has provided us with an instruction manual with over 30,000 verses in it telling us about the future...So I don't think it's us he's laughing at...

[Iscool]

It’s amazing to me that the Rapture deniers admit that Christians will leave the earth but are totally ignorant of the fact that when Jesus returns at the 2nd coming the living people on the earth go no where...They stay put on the earth...

[Iscool]

That is an absurd position; today’s secular state of Israel complete with gay parades is not the Israel that God granted victories to thousands of years ago.

Yes it is...

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Of course there is, or is supposed to be, a relationship between doctrine and diplomacy; you sure don't want papal diplomacy to OPPOSE Catholic doctrine. However the Church has no doctrine on the Jewish State of Israel --- there simply isn't one --- and you can't construe otherwise from Vatican foreign policy.

I myself support Israel strongly, since it seems to be, if not strictly necessary, then at least of great practical important to the survival of the Jewish people. It seems the foundation of the State of Israel was both legal and morally legitimate: therefore they have my support.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is currently on the record in support of the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel. At least four ministers in Netanyahu's cabinet also openly supported a two-state solution: defense minister, Avigdor Lieberman, and ministers Moshe Kahlon, Yoav Galant and Tzachi Hanegbi. Reportdly a majority of Netanyahu's cabinet would approve this at least on a limited, provisional basis.

Check out this article from The Jerusalem Post two days ago: Israel reiterates support for a two-state solution.

Moreover, some of the most Torah-observant of the religious Jews --- primarily in the Hasidic/Haredi community --- flatly deny that the secular social-democratic state of Israel is the true Israel of G_d, as it is not ruled by the Messiah nor by strict halachic law.

Therefore I do not think it is politically or religiously obligatory for Christians to oppose the Israeli Prime Minister and his government, nor the Torah-observant Haredi rabbis, in this matter.

The Pope is not religiously obligated to oppose the Netanyahu or the anti-Zionist Israeli Hasidim.

He --- or we --- could take a variety of different positions, depending on what we think truly just and prudent. It is not, for Catholics, dependent on an obligatory theological stance concerning the present state of Israel. We don't have one.