And even Lincoln's Treasury Secretary Chase was reported to say that it must be repealed."
But the opposite happened, Morrill rates were soon increased, then increased again.
So who really wanted it repealed, and why?
Well, Democrats of course, since they opposed it to begin with.
Anyone else?
Not that I can specifically find.
Here's an interesting article on the subject, from the Newark Daily Advertiser, April 2, 1861, quite sympathetic to Republicans.
And here's another, from the anti-Republican Pittsburgh Post, April 2, 1861.
Most important to note: neither the pro nor anti-Republican newspapers call for war to solve economic problems.
And this was just ten days before Jefferson Davis ordered Civil War to begin at Fort Sumter.
rustbucket: "With regard to Fort Sumter, perhaps you are forgetting leaks to the press in March that Fort Sumter was going to be evacuated."
Such rumors encouraged by Secretary of State Seward, who wished to avoid war and wanted Fort Sumter surrendered.
And so long as Lincoln had hope of "a fort for a state" deal, the rumors were not false.
And that deal did not completely fail until around April 4, when Lincoln met with Virginia representative John B. Baldwin.
At that point, Lincoln's choices were:
- Surrender Fort Sumter with nothing of value received in return.
- Send a large force -- 25,000+ troops -- to relieve Fort Sumter.
- Attempt to resupply Fort Sumter, to hold for future negotiations.
Of the three, only the last was remotely possible or likely to succeed.
rustbucket quoting Maj. Anderson: "We shall strive to do our duty, though I frankly say that my heart is not in the war which I see is to be thus commenced."
You guys love to quote Unionist warnings of war, but ignore the more important warning to Jefferson Davis from his own Secretary of State, Robert Toombs:
- ""Mr. President, at this time it is suicide, murder, and will lose us every friend at the North.
You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountain to ocean, and legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death.
It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal."[14"
The decision to start Civil war at Fort Sumter belonged to Jefferson Davis alone.
rustbucket: "Then I said, March 3 was the day before his inaugural speech on March 4.
Why was he saying it on March 3 like you first claimed? "
Pesky typos, can't catch them all.
rustbucket: "If Lincoln believed that he could do that without resistence from the seceded states, he was hopelessly naïve.
All he had to do was to read editorials about his inaugural speech in Southern newspapers and Northern Democrat newspapers."
Possibly "hopelessly naïve".
But the more accurate understanding would be to realize Lincoln intended to do everything his Oath of Office required, such as collecting tariffs, peacefully if possible, by force only if absolutely necessary.
Lincoln understood that the only thing which could remove his obligation to enforce the laws was Congressional action to change those laws.
rustbucket; "I recommend to you the book, "Lincoln Takes Command, How Lincoln Got The War He Wanted" by John Shipley Tilley.
It is a good book."
Outside these threads I've actually tried to read pro-Confederate propaganda material, and sorry to say, just can't.
For a comparison, consider: how long can you stand to listen to Hillary screech?
That's about the same length of time I can put up with serious pro-Confederate propaganda.
It is so wrong, so misguided and rooted in historical fantasies I can't read more than a few sentences.
And I get plenty of it here, to which I can always respond, in depth.
rustbucket: "Should I put a trigger warning on my posts? "
Odd that I first heard that term "trigger warning" a few days ago, now it appears everywhere... odd.
All your old quotes are just fine, but you use them as a propagandist would, not like a scholar.
You take them out of context, ascribe meanings not intended and don't show where these particular ideas fit into the overall discussions of that time.
rustbucket: "To justify their 1861 secession, the Virginia Secession Convention used the exact words that Madison and other Federalists had put in (and voted for) the 1788 Virginia ratification document."
Sure, after Fort Sumter, just as intended by Jefferson Davis when he ordered war to begin there.
Literally, Virginia was unable to declare secession "at pleasure" absent conditions recognized as valid by the Founders:
- Mutual consent, meaning from Congress or some national convention.
- Material breech of compact, such as oppression or usurpations.
Since neither condition existed before Fort Sumter Virginia was unable to declare secession.
But once war began, then Virginians could declare their own secession, in accordance with their ratifications statements of 1788.
rustbucket: "If Southern manufacturing were such a big deal, why did 40 Southern members of the House vote against the Morrill Tariff, while only one voted for it?"
As we've reviewed before, there were 21 Southern and 12 Northern Democrats who abstained, along with 14 Republicans.
Eight Southerners voted "yes" and 15 Northerners voted "no".
Yes, of Deep South representatives who voted, almost all were "no".
But outside the Deep South itself, feelings were mixed.
More to my point: effective leadership amongst those who opposed Morrill could have produced better results, from their own perspectives.
rustbucket: "A major potential problem for the North was that goods imported into Southern ports could be smuggled into the North without paying a Northern tariff and sold at prices below those supported by the Morrill Tariff. "
No, not a major problem, only a minor issue requiring extra tariff agents in cities, railroads and steamboats connecting North & South.
And they would not have to catch every smuggler, only the major shippers and those were enough to keep that vast majority of Nothern trade flowing through Union, not Confederate, ports.
rustbucket: "In the future Southern market, Northern goods would face competition from lower priced, better quality, European goods imported to Southern ports under the lower Confederate tariff."
Impossible, since all large shipments would be taxed twice, first by the Confederacy then the Union.
So no merchant would want that, and would make certain imports intended for Union citizens landed in Union cities, etc.
rustbucket: "I think it was Kettell who calculated the value of Northern goods sold annually to the South at 240 million dollars."
Remember, that trade did disappear in 1861, gone.
And what happened?
Federal revenues fell by 26% in 1861 then rose by 19%, 37% and 51% in following years.
So sure, 26% is a big problem, but not the end of the world economically.
rustbucket: "It perhaps would have been better if the two sides separated peaceably and agreed to no tariff being applied to Northern or Southern goods going to the other region."
Maybe, but all such discussion ended on April 12, 1861 when Jefferson Davis ordered Civil War to begin at Fort Sumter.
