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To: BroJoeK; rustbucket; DiogenesLamp
You said: “But in all that, the only indisputably Deep South exports were the $191 million in cotton.”

The figures are a total of shipments from each Customs house warehouse, given by region. If you wish to dispute Customs data, published by the Treasury department, then let's have your reasoning. Otherwise it is indisputable.

You left out the data from the North, which was in the post.

You purposefully misrepresented the data to show an erroneous conclusion.

You said: “The balance could just as easily come from Upper South, Border States and Northern Midwestern States.”

Which it did not.

“The author here has simply lumped everything which did not necessarily come from the Northeast as “products of the South”.

The ‘author’ is the U.S. Treasury report of 1861.

You said: “Further, this report understates total exports by the value of specie (gold & silver). The real total was about $400 million or which roughly $200 million was product of the Deep-Cotton South.”

Real total was $400 million??

Cite your source for that.

1,403 posted on 10/11/2016 1:57:13 PM PDT by PeaRidge
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To: PeaRidge; rustbucket; DiogenesLamp
PeaRidge: "The figures are a total of shipments from each Customs house warehouse, given by region.
If you wish to dispute Customs data, published by the Treasury department, then let's have your reasoning. Otherwise it is indisputable."

First of all, the link you provided showed no data I could find to support those numbers.
So I have no reason to suppose they are accurate for purposes of this discussion.

Second, according to DiogenesLamp's endlessly posted map, over 80% of Southern commerce went through just two cities: New Orleans and Baltimore.
Both cities had strong railroad connections to the North and Midwest, while New Orleans also had Mississippi steamboats bringing product from the North.
So there's no reason to suppose that exports from New Orleans and Baltimore other than cotton were not as likely produced in the North or Midwest as the South.

Third but not least, "Southern Origin" refers not just to the Deep-Cotton South, but also to the Union Border states and the mixed loyalties Upper South.

So, lacking better data on non-cotton production, I conclude that much if not most of what is here called "Southern Origin" in fact came from Union states or loyalist regions of Confederate states and shipped through New Orleans or Baltimore.

PeaRidge: "You left out the data from the North, which was in the post.
You purposefully misrepresented the data to show an erroneous conclusion."

On your first point, Northern exports are not in question here, they are given.
The issue is whether everything called "Southern Origin" really did originate in the Confederate-South.
I think much of it did not, and that means our pro-Confederates have exaggerated the importance of "Southern exports" to the overall US economy.

On your second point: no, nothing of the sort.

PeaRidge: "You said: 'The balance could just as easily come from Upper South, Border States and Northern Midwestern States.'

"Which it did not."

Which you don't know because you don't have the raw numbers to review and confirm.
Logic says that because 80% of Southern commerce shipped through New Orleans and Baltimore, much of that originated in the North and Mid-west.
What it means is that our pro-Confederates have exaggerated the overall importance of Southern exports.

PeaRidge: "Real total was $400 million??
Cite your source for that."

Sure, I've cited the link several times already on this thread alone.
And I think it originally came from somebody like PeaRidge or DiogenesLamp, don't remember for sure...


1,430 posted on 10/12/2016 11:50:45 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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