Nope. Don't see any instructions regarding slavery anywhere in those orders. Funny that. If they were fighting a war for that reason, you would think they would mention it.
Posted on 06/23/2016 2:04:08 PM PDT by ColdOne
A measure to bar confederate flags from cemeteries run by the Department of Veterans Affairs was removed from legislation passed by the House early Thursday.
The flag ban was added to the VA funding bill in May by a vote of 265-159, with most Republicans voting against the ban. But Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) both supported the measure. Ryan was commended for allowing a vote on the controversial measure, but has since limited what amendments can be offered on the floor.
(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...
After you browse these comments, his quote "....but what will become of my tariff" is comparatively now very mundane. I included it all chronologically to show that, unlike slavery, his tariff position was prominent and consistent throughout his ENTIRE career.
“My politics are short and sweet, like the old woman's dance. I am in favor of a national bank...in favor of the internal improvements system and a high protective tariff” - Abraham Lincoln, 1832
“To the Honorable Senate and House of Representatives in Congress assembled : The undersigned citizens of Sangamon County of the State of Illinois, respectfully request Congress to establish by law a TARIFF of duties, so as to prevent excessive importations of goods, and excessive exportations of specie; to create a Home market for agricultural productions; a Home demand for the skill and industry of our people; to raise revenue enough to relieve the nation from debt and to support the government, and so to foster our manufactures as to make our nation PROSPEROUS in Peace and INDEPENDENT in War.” Abraham Lincoln along with 271 other signers, May 1842
“Resolved , That a Tariff of duties on imported goods, producing sufficient Revenue, for the payment of the necessary expenditures of the National Government, and so adjusted as to protect American Industry, is indispensably necessary to the prosperity of the American people. Resolved , That we are opposed to Direct Taxation for the support of the National Government. Resolved , That a National Bank, properly restricted, is highly necessary and proper to the establishment and maintainance of a sound currency; and for the cheap and safe collection, keeping, and disbursing the public revenue. Resolved , That the distribution of the proceeds of the sales of Public Lands, upon the principles of Clay's bill, accords with the best interests of the Nation, and particularly with those of the State of Illinois. Resolved , That we recommend to the whigs of each Congressional District of the State, to nominate and support, at the approaching election, a candidate of their own principles, regardless of the chances of success. Resolved , That we recommend to the whigs of all portions of this State to adopt, and rigidly adhere to, the Convention System of nominating candidates. Resolved , That we recommend to the whigs of each Congressional District to hold a District Convention on or before the first Monday of May next, to be composed of a number of delegates from each county equal to double the number of its Representatives in the General Assembly, provided each county shall have at least one delegate. Said delegates to be chosen by primary meetings of the whigs, at such times and places as they in their respective counties may see fit. Said District Conventions, each, to nominate one candidate for Congress, and one delegate to a National Convention, for the purpose of nominating candidates for President and Vice President of the United States. The seven delegates so nominated to a National Convention, to have power to add two delegates to their own number, and to fill all vacancies. Resolved , That A. T. Bledsoe, S. T. Logan, and A. Lincoln, be appointed a committee to prepare an address to the People of the State.” - Resolution drafted by Lincoln and the committee, March 14, 1843
“By a resolution of a meeting of such of the Whigs of the State, as are now at Springfield, we, the undersigned, were appointed to prepare an address to you. [2] The performance of that task we now undertake. Several resolutions were adopted by the meeting; and the chief object of this address is, to show briefly, the reasons for their adoption. The first of those resolutions declares a tariff of duties upon foreign importations, producing sufficient revenue for the support of the General Government, and so adjusted as to protect American industry, to be indispensably necessary to the prosperity of the American People.” - Lincoln's address to the People of the State with Bledsoe and Logan, 1843
“After Mr. Baker sat down, Mr. Lincoln was again called upon. He took up the three prominent principles of the Whig Party-—The Tariff , a sound and uniform National Currency and the Distribution of the proceeds of the Public Lands. All these he illustrated so plainly and so forcibly, as to show that he not only understood these principles thoroughly himself and their beneficial bearing on the American people, but that he also possessed a most happy faculty of vindicating them and of urging their adoption before an audience in such a manner as to convince all present of their necessity.” - The Burlington Hawk Eye, October 19, 1843
“Mr. Lincoln made some large statements, but I suppose they were true, for he had the document with him. He attempted to make the farmer believe that the high pressure tariff made every thing they bought cheaper, but said also he could not tell the reason, but that it was so, and I suppose that is enough for the huge farmer to know.” - Account printed in the Illinois State Register, March 15, 1844
“That foremost in importance among these principles we recognize and affirm, that of providing a national revenue by a tariff of duties on foreign importations, so adjusted that while it will yield no more than is necessary for an economical and efficient administration of the federal government, will at the same time afford equal protection and encouragement to every branch of American Industry.” - Illinois Whig Platform of 1844, drafted by Abraham Lincoln, William Kellogg, Jonathan Y. Scammon, William F. Bryan, Lincoln B. Knowlton, J. R. Cooper, Samuel H. Davis, John M. Smith, and William Broaddus
“Mr. Lincoln, of Springfield, Ill., addressed a large and respectable audience at the court house on Wednesday evening last, upon the whig policy. His main argument was directed in pointing out the advantages of a Protective Tariff.” - The Rockport Herald, November 1, 1844
“[T]here was a respectable gathering of the citizens of our village, and Mr. Lincoln gave us a good speech. The Tariff was the principal subject, with which he showed himself to be thoroughly acquainted. In a most logical, argumentative effort, he demonstrated the necessity of a discriminating tariff, and the excellence of that adopted by the whig congress of 1842; and also that the consumer does not usually pay the tariff, but the manufacturer and importer.” - The Illinois Gazette, July 5, 1846
“It appears to me that the national debt created by the war, renders a modification of the existing tariff indispensable; and when it shall be modified, I should be pleased to see it adjusted with a due reference to the protection of our home industry. The particulars, it appears to me, must and should be left to the untrammeled discretion of Congress.” - Abraham Lincoln, draft remarks, written circa March 1848
“But is there any doubt as to what he will do on the prominent questions, if elected? Not the least. It is not possible to know what he will, or would do, in every imaginable case; because many questions have passed away, and others doubtless will arise which none of us have yet thought of; but on the prominent questions of Currency, Tariff , internal improvements, and Wilmot Proviso, Gen: Taylor's course is at least as well defined as is Gen: Cass’. Why, in their eagerness to get at Gen: Taylor, several democratic members here, have desired to know whether, in case of his election, a bankrupt law is to be established. Can they tell us Gen: Cass’ opinion on this question? (Some member answered ``He is against it’’) Aye, how do you know he is? There is nothing about it in the Platform, nor elsewhere that I have seen. If the gentleman knows of any thing, which I do not, he can show it. But to return: Gen: Taylor, in his Allison letter, says “Upon the subject of the tariff, the currency, the improvements of our great high-ways, rivers, lakes, and harbors, the will of the people, as expressed through their representatives in congress, ought to be respected and carried out by the executive.” - Rep. Abraham Lincoln in support of the Whig qualifications of presidential candidate Zachary Taylor, July 27, 1848
“What good thing, or even part of good thing has the country ever enjoyed, which originated with him? What evil thing has ever been averted by him? Compare his proofs of statesmanship with those of Mr. Fillmore, up to the times respectively when their names were first connected with presidential elections. Mr. Fillmore, if I remember rightly, had not been in Congress so long as Mr. or Gen. Pierce; yet he did acquire the distinction of being placed at the head of one of the most important Committees; and as its Chairman, was the principal member of the H.R. in manturing the tariff of 1842.” - Abraham Lincoln, in opposition to Democrat presidential candidate Franklin Pierce, August 14, 1852
“The people of this city were addressed at the court house on Friday evening last, by Hon. A. LINCOLN, of Springfield. He showed up the inconsistency of the sham democracy on the question of internal improvements in such a manner that it is not to be wondered at that the friends of Pierce and King were dissatisfied. On the subject of the tariff he advocated the American side of the question, asking why, instead of sending a distance of 4,000 miles for our railroad iron, the immense iron beds of Missouri were not worked, affording a better article than that of English manufacture, and giving employment to American labor. On this point, he agreed with that distinguished democrat, Benton, who does not believe with the President of the Peoria Pierce Club, that a protective tariff is a tax on the poor for the benefit of the rich. After alluding to the evasiveness exhibited in the celebrated platform adopted by the Democratic National Convention, the speaker contrasted the claims of the respective candidates to the support of the American people. Gen. Pierce had been a member of the U.S. Senate for five years and of the Lower House four years, and if he is the possessor of the great civil qualifications claimed for him by his friends, where is the evidence? Instead of possessing eminent civil abilities, said Mr. LINCOLN, did not an examination of the record prove that he is not worthy of the extravagant praises now bestowed upon him by his partisan friends. His votes show that he was the steady, consistent enemy of western improvements, and judging of the future by the past, should Mr. Pierce be elected he would surely veto such internal improvement bills as the one recently passed by Congress.” - Peoria Weekly Republican, September 24, 1852
“What is the reason that Kansas was not fit to come into the Union when it was organized into a Territory, in Judge Douglas’ view? Can any of you tell any reason why it should not have come into the Union at once? They are fit, as he thinks, to decide upon the slavery question-—the largest and most important with which they could possibly deal-—what could they do by coming into the Union that they are not fit to do, according to his view, by staying out of it? Oh, they are not fit to sit in Congress and decide upon the rates of postage, or questions of ad valorem or specific duties on foreign goods, or live oak timber contracts; they are not fit to decide these vastly important matters, which are national in their import, but they are fit, ``from the jump,’’ to decide this little negro question. But, gentlemen, the case is too plain; I occupy too much time on this head, and I pass on.” - Abraham Lincoln, September 16, 1859
“My dear Sir: I am here, just now, attending court. Yesterday, before I left Springfield, your brother, Dr. William S. Wallace, showed me a letter of yours, in which you kindly mention my name, inquire for my tariff views; and suggest the propriety of my writing a letter upon the subject. I was an old Henry Clay tariff whig. In old times I made more speeches on that subject, than on any other. I have not since changed my views. I believe yet, if we could have a moderate, carefully adjusted, protective tariff, so far acquiesced in, as to not be a perpetual subject of political strife, squabbles, charges, and uncertainties, it would be better for us. Still, it is my opinion that, just now, the revival of that question, will not advance the cause itself, or the man who revives it. I have not thought much upon the subject recently; but my general impression is, that the necessity for a protective tariff will, ere long, force it's old opponents to take it up; and then it's old friends can join in, and establish it on a more firm and durable basis. We, the old whigs, have been entirely beaten out on the tariff question; and we shall not be able to re-establish the policy, until the absence of it, shall have demonstrated the necessity for it, in the minds of men heretofore opposed to it.” - Abraham Lincoln to Edward Wallace, October 11, 1859
“’That, while providing revenue for the support of the General Government by duties upon imposts, sound policy requires such an adjustment of the imposts as to encourage the development of the industrial interest of the whole country, and we commend that policy of national exchanges which secures to the working men liberal wages, to agriculture remunerating prices, to mechanics and manufacturers an adequate reward for their skill, labor and enterprise, and to the nation commercial prosperity and independence.’” - Platform of the Republican Party adopted in August 1860 and endorsed by Lincoln, their nominee for President
“My dear Sir: To comply with your request to furnish extracts from my tariff speeches is simply impossible, because none of those speeches were published. It was not fashionable here in those days to report one’s public speeches. In 1844 I was on the Clay electoral ticket in this State (i.e., Illinois) and, to the best of my ability, sustained, together, the tariff of 1842 and the tariff plank of the Clay platform . This could be proven by hundreds-—perhaps thousands-—of living witnesses; still it is not in print, except by inference. The Whig papers of those years all show that I was upon the electoral ticket; even though I made speeches, among other things about the tariff, but they do not show what I said about it. The papers show that I was one of a committee which reported, among others, a resolution in these words: ``That we are in favor of an adequate revenue on duties from imports so levied as to afford ample protection to American industry.’’ But, after all, was it really any more than the tariff plank of our present platform? And does not my acceptance pledge me to that?” - Abraham Lincoln to James Hervey, October 6, 1860
“Yours kindly seeking my view as to the proper mode of dealing with secession, was received several days ago, but, for want of time I could not answer it till now. I think we should hold the forts, or retake them, as the case may be, and collect the revenue. We shall have to forgo the use of the federal courts, and they that of the mails, for a while. We can not fight them in to holding courts, or receiving the mails. This is an outline of my view; and perhaps suggests sufficiently, the whole of it.” - Abraham Lincoln, letter to Col. J.W. Webb, December 29, 1860
“The words ``coercion’’ and ``invasion’’ are in great use about these days. Suppose we were simply to try if we can, and ascertain what, is the meaning of these words. Let us get, if we can, the exact definitions of these words-—not from dictionaries, but from the men who constantly repeat them-—what things they mean to express by the words. What, then, is ``coercion’’? What is ``invasion’’? Would the marching of an army into South California, for instance, without the consent of her people, and in hostility against them, be coercion or invasion? I very frankly say, I think it would be invasion, and it would be coercion too, if the people of that country were forced to submit. But if the Government, for instance, but simply insists upon holding its own forts, or retaking those forts which belong to it,-—[cheers,]-—or the enforcement of the laws of the United States in the collection of duties upon foreign importations,-—[renewed cheers,]-—or even the withdrawal of the mails from those portions of the country where the mails themselves are habitually violated; would any or all of these things be coercion?” - Abraham Lincoln, February 11, 1861
“[I]f the consideration of the Tariff bill should be postponed until the next session of the National Legislature, no subject should engage your representatives more closely than that of a tariff . And if I have any recommendation to make, it will be that every man who is called upon to serve the people in a representative capacity, should study this whole subject thoroughly, as I intend to do myself, looking to all the varied interests of our common country, so that when the time for action arrives adequate protection can be extended to the coal and iron of Pennsylvania, the corn of Illinois, and the ``reapers of Chicago.’’” - Abraham Lincoln, February 15, 1861
“The power confided to me, will be used to hold, occupy, and possess the property, and places belonging to the government, and to collect the duties and imposts; but beyond what may be necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion—no using of force against, or among the people anywhere.” - Abraham Lincoln, March 4, 1861
Sir: I shall be obliged if you will give me your opinion in writing whether under the Constitution and existing laws, the Executive has power to collect duties on ship-board, off-shore, in cases where their collection in the ordinary way is, by any cause, rendered impracticable. This would include the question of lawful power to prevent the landing of dutiable goods, unless the duties were paid.” - Abraham Lincoln to Edward Bates, March 18, 1861
“Sir I shall be obliged if you will inform me whether any goods, wares and merchandise, subject by law to the payment of duties, are now being imported into the United States without such duties being paid, or secured according to law. And if yea, at what place or places? and for what cause do such duties remain unpaid, or [un]secured? I will also thank you for your opinion whether, as a matter of fact, vessels off shore could be effectively used to prevent such importation, or to enforce the payment or securing of the duties. If yea, what number, and description of vessels, in addition to those already in the Revenue service would be requisite?” - Abraham Lincoln to Salmon P. Chase, March 18, 1861
“At the beginning of that month, in the inaugural, I said ``The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy and possess the property and places belonging to the government, and to collect the duties , and imposts.’’ This had your distinct approval at the time; and, taken in connection with the order I immediately gave General Scott, directing him to employ every means in his power to strengthen and hold the forts, comprises the exact domestic policy you now urge, with the single exception, that it does not propose to abandon Fort Sumter.” - Abraham Lincoln to William Seward, April 1, 1861
“n answer I have to say, that having, at the beginning of my official term, expressed my intended policy, as plainly as I was able, it is with deep regret, and some mortification, I now learn, that there is great, and injurious uncertainty, in the public mind, as to what that policy is, and what course I intend to pursue. Not having, as yet, seen occasion to change, it is now my purpose to pursue the course marked out in the inaugural address. I commend a careful consideration of the whole document, as the best expression I can give of my purposes. As I then, and therein, said, I now repeat: ``The power confided to me will be used to hold, occupy, and possess, the property, and places belonging to the Government, and to collect the duties, and imposts; but, beyond what is necessary for these objects, there will be no invasion-—no using of force against, or among the people anywhere’’ By the words ``property, and places, belonging to the Government’’ I chiefly allude to the military posts, and property, which were in the possession of the Government when it came to my hands. But if, as now appears to be true, in pursuit of a purpose to drive the United States authority from these places, an unprovoked assault, has been made upon Fort-Sumter, I shall hold myself at liberty to re-possess, if I can, like places which had been seized before the Government was devolved upon me.... Whatever else I may do for the purpose, I shall not attempt to collect the duties , and imposts, by any armed invasion of any part of the country-—not meaning by this, however, that I may not land a force, deemed necessary, to relieve a fort upon a border of the country. From the fact, that I have quoted a part of the inaugural address, it must not be inferred that I repudiate any other part, the whole of which I re-affirm, except so far as what I now say of the mails, may be regarded as a modification.” - Abraham Lincoln, in a message of disinformation to commissioners from the Virginia convention, April 13, 1861
“By the President of the United States of America: A Proclamation. Whereas an insurrection against the Government of the United States has broken out in the States of South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas, and the laws of the United States for the collection of the revenue cannot be effectually executed therein conformably to that provision of the Constitution which requires duties to be uniform throughout the United States: And whereas a combination of persons engaged in such insurrection, have threatened to grant pretended letters of marque to authorize the bearers thereof to commit assaults on the lives, vessels, and property of good citizens of the country lawfully engaged in commerce on the high seas, and in waters of the United States: And whereas an Executive Proclamation has been already issued, requiring the persons engaged in these disorderly proceedings to desist therefrom, calling out a militia force for the purpose of repressing the same, and convening Congress in extraordinary session, to deliberate and determine thereon: Now, therefore, I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, with a view to the same purposes before mentioned, and to the protection of the public peace, and the lives and property of quiet and orderly citizens pursuing their lawful occupations, until Congress shall have assembled and deliberated on the said unlawful proceedings, or until the same shall have ceased, have further deemed it advisable to set on foot a blockade of the ports within the States aforesaid, in pursuance of the laws of the United States, and of the law of Nations, in such case provided. For this purpose a competent force will be posted so as to prevent entrance and exit of vessels from the ports aforesaid. If, therefore, with a view to violate such blockade, a vessel shall approach, or shall attempt to leave either of the said ports, she will be duly warned by the Commander of one of the blockading vessels, who will endorse on her register the fact and date of such warning, and if the same vessel shall again attempt to enter or leave the blockaded port, she will be captured and sent to the nearest convenient port, for such proceedings against her and her cargo as prize, as may be deemed advisable. And I hereby proclaim and declare that if any person, under the pretended authority of the said States, or under any other pretense, shall molest a vessel of the United States, or the persons or cargo on board of her, such person will be held amenable to the laws of the United States for the prevention and punishment of piracy. In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand, and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed. Done at the City of Washington, this nineteenth day of April, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-one, and of the Independence of the United States the eighty-fifth.” - Abraham Lincoln, April 19, 1861
The fact is that the single belief that Abraham Lincoln consistently adhered to without any compromise for the entirety of his political career dating from the 1830’s to his death is that of implementing and collecting the tariff. And the above is just a brief sample of his many speeches, writings, letters, and proclamations on that issue. (credit GopCapitalist for posting)
I quoted from the Memphis Daily Avalanche article as it was posted on line. If there's any distortion here, it was in the passage of the story from newspaper to newspaper, article to article, book to book, not anything I did. That was sort of my point: this purported quote became part of the folklore passing from mouth to mouth and pen to pen and being changed in the process.
Your comment is a stretch. The informant said where he couldn't hear or perhaps the conversation went too fast for the informant to follow. But the informant appears to have heard much of the discussion, or else he would say like he did, that he couldn't follow this part or that part.
You are assuming good will or trustworthiness on the part of "our informant." His comments show that he had no goodwill towards Lincoln and no willingness to give him the benefit of the doubt. As for trustworthiness, here's another version of the conversation, also attributed to the Baltimore Exchange:
Mr. Lincoln replied that, mathematically speaking, the troops could not crawl under Maryland, nor could they fly over it, and consequently they would have to come through it. If he was to follow the advice of Dr. Fuller, he would have no Government at all. France and England would recognize the Southern Confederacy, and his revenues would be broken up, and the Government would be worth nothing.
Whether this came from the same informant or not it certainly qualifies the other report. It wasn't all about "my tariff." It was about preserving the government and the country, and revenues were only a part of what was in peril. It was clear that secessionists were going to seize on the idea of the whole conflict being about "my tariff," but the context given here makes very different interpretations possible and likely.
The Baldwin meeting is sketchier than the Fuller encounter, since a bloody war had happened by the time Baldwin reported the quote, with Baldwin on the other side from Lincoln. Plus, the role of Robert Dabney, a notorious lost cause proponent, further muddies the waters. By the time Baldwin made his testimony, "What about my tariff?" was so much a part of the mythology that inserting it into his testimony may have been too hard for him to resist.
I haven't looked at the Baldwin-Dabney reports for a while. In general, though, I have a hard time judging the validity of a lot of these reports because the language is so flowery that it seems obviously unnatural to our ears. Plus, the person making the report usually portrays himself in hindsight as so clearly right about everything and the other person as so wrong or boorish that it's hard not to suspect some distortion happened between the conversation and the recording of it.
Rhett’s letter
Thank you. That was excellent, and much of it seemingly still applies today.
Nope. Don't see any instructions regarding slavery anywhere in those orders. Funny that. If they were fighting a war for that reason, you would think they would mention it.
I salute your commitment to learning THE truth. The beautiful thing about the internet -- it's the largest, uncensored library in the world at our fingertips.
I've been thinking that a good animated movie would clarify these events in such a manner that it becomes apparent who started it and why.
One of those cartoons with the robotic voices? THAT would be funny. AND a good idea.
I instantly realized this image was proof that New England was somehow monopolizing the European trade, and basically intercepting much of the money produced by exports from the Southern States which produced around 3/4ths of the value of all exports.
Lincoln launched that war because it served the interests of the New England Robber Barons who held his strings.
Great graphic sez it all.
Strong evidence suggest as just as you suggest -- the war against southern independence was launched as a war of economics. The South was the source of much of the natural resources funneled to northern factories and ports (NYC, Philly and Boston.)
Were the South to expand on its own trade and improve on its own ports and financed and built its own factories, the monopoly of those "New England Robber Barons", its Northern ports and factories would obviously have been jeopardized. As would all that tax revenue generated from the South. Europe could sail directly into Charleston or New Orleans, bypassing NYC and Boston.
We'd noticed just after the CW those same Northern "Robber Baron" elites and carpet-baggers were given carte blanche by Lincoln's successors to sweep through a South like locusts and vultures, buying out a devastated people of its lifeblood -- its business, property, and assets for pennies on the dollar. That feral gummint helped the elites steal wealth -- just like today.
They then used that newly acquired wealth with which to help them run roughshod over Indian territory to expand railroads and build towns without due compensation OR despite treaties. Funny how history repeat itself, isn't it?
So yes -- it can definitely be said that the Elite-class controlled and owned politicians and created the Civil War to enrich THEMSELVES. "Sovereignty"? "Slavery"? Keeping the Union together? Not so much.
Holiday greetings on this Independence Day weekend. A quick review of the insipid commentary from our lost cause FRiends makes me mindful of a quote...
“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin
Enjoy your weekend y’all!
No. A high quality animation akin to something like "Johnny Quest" if you can remember that far back.
It would take some serious effort and some serious talent to pull it off, but the consequences of it might be astonishing.
Revealing that the Civil War was a battle for economic supremacy instigated by the Robber Barons of New England, might cause people to realize that the exact same dynamics are operating today.
The nation is literally controlled by that Washington D.C./New York corridor. (Map shows relationship between location and portion produced of overall GDP.)
Something else I remember today was the massive surge in corruption which occurred in the aftermath of the civil war, especially in the New England and Washington D.C. areas.
The Grant Administration was especially known for it's corruption, influence, kickbacks and financial scandals, though Grant was generally seen as a dupe, and not a participant.
The question occurred to me, just where did all these New Englanders get the idea that corruption and influence peddling was okay? Well they got that idea from the huge success they had in creating the Civil War!
By making the US go to war for their economic interests, they had laid the foundation for all that future corruption. It had become the way of doing business between New York and Washington.
But this is interesting:
http://www.americancivilwar.com/authors/Joseph_Ryan/Articles/Lincoln-Instigated-War/The-Buried-Fact-Record.html
I haven't read it completely, but i've read far enough in it to get a grasp of the man's argument, and at this point I must say it is compelling.
I was especially impressed by the section that mentioned how heavily the Confederates had fortified the approaches to the Harbor, and that it was D@mn nigh impossible to land any troops to reinforce the fort. In addition, the assertion that Lincoln had been advised that it would require 20,000 men to reinforce Ft. Sumter was a real eye opener.
It makes it clear that Lincoln's assembled force in those four ships must have been created for no other purpose than to convince the Confederates that Lincoln was breaking the armistice.
That three ships were ordered to meet 10 miles east of the Charleston Lighthouse and wait for the arrival of the fourth ship which had secret orders meant that those ships were intended to be seen by the Confederates, and their spies had already told them they were loaded with men and arms.
There was much in that link that supported the argument that those forces were never intended to fight, but rather to serve as a secret provocation that the Confederates knew about, but that no one in Union knew about.
That's why when the Confederates attacked the fort, it looked like the Confederates were the provokers, rather than the other way around.
Yes, that is very interesting.
You are assuming good will or trustworthiness on the part of "our informant."
I think the informant reported what he heard Lincoln say. Baldwin reported similar remarks from a different meeting with Lincoln earlier that April 1861. Future tariff revenue was a major topic in the newspapers of the time. It would have been very surprising if Lincoln had not been concerned about it too, making what he reportedly said on April 23 and April 4 to be quite likely his true sentiments.
Below are excerpts from newspaper articles and editorials of the time previously posted on FreeRepublic -- some by me, some by others. Some came from posts I archived whose entire threads were later deleted by FR because of unrelated flame wars.
- I will indent excerpts from each post I extract information from.
- Extracts of editorials and articles will be shown in small indented fort.
- Bold red font will be used for anything I want to emphasize.
[Prediction] From the New York Post of March 2, 1861 [the day the Morrill Tariff was signed into law by Buchanan]
That either the revenue from duties must be collected in the ports of the rebel states, or the port must be closed to importations from abroad, is generally admitted. If neither of these things be done, our revenue laws are substantially repealed; the sources, which supply our treasury, will be dried up; we shall have no money to carry on the government; the nation will become bankrupt before the next crop of corn is ripe.
There will be nothing to furnish means of subsistence to the army; nothing to keep our navy afloat; nothing to pay the salaries of public officers; the present order of things must come to a dead stop.[Prediction and explanation] From the New York Times of March 30, 1861:
With the loss of our foreign trade, what is to become of our public works, conducted at the cost of many hundred millions of dollars, to turn into our harbor the products of the interior? They share in the common ruin. So do our manufacturers...Once at New Orleans, goods may be distributed over the whole country duty-free. The process is perfectly simple... The commercial bearing of the question has acted upon the North..."
"We now see clearly whither we are tending, and the policy we must adopt. With us it is no longer an abstract question---one of Constitutional construction, or of the reserved or delegated powers of the State or Federal government, but of material existence and moral position both at home and abroad.....We were divided and confused till our pockets were touched." [Underline emphasis added][Predictions and very early results] from the New York Herald of March 2, 1861:
The effect of these two tariffs, then, upon our trade with the best, and most reliable part of the country will most disastrously be felt in all the Northern cities. We learn that even now some of the largest houses in the Southern trade in this city, who have not already failed, are preparing to wind up their affairs and abandon business entirely. The result of this as regards the value of property, rents, and real estate, can be readily seen. Within two months from this time it will probably be depreciated from twenty to forty percent.
[NYC results] From the New Orleans Daily Crescent newspaper of May 15, 1861 quoting the New York Day Book newspaper.
All New York is failing. The suspensions and failures of the past few days have been fearful, and the war promises to bankrupt every merchant in New York. The retail business is as bad off as the wholesale. Nobody is purchasing anything, and trade is killed.
The following is a comparative statement of the imports of foreign dry goods at the port of New York for the week ending April 27:
For the week. ……….……1860 ……..….1861
Entered at the port, ………...$1,503,483 …...$393,061
Thrown on the market, …….$1,650,790 ..….$396,992
The imports of dry goods are very small this week, probably the least reported for many years.
Well may Mr. Lincoln ask, "What will become of my revenue?"
…
[There] "have been over 200 failures in New York since the 22d April, and within the last month not less than 300. Real estate has no sale at any price and rents are comparatively normal. Total bankruptcy stares all in the face, and starvation will become a daily visitor to the abode of the poor."
[Trade between North and South, the impact on Northern business. T’aint just Northern tariff revenue] From the Lincoln-supporting Philadelphia Press on March 18, 1861 :
One of the most important benefits which the Federal Government has conferred upon the nation is unrestricted trade between many prosperous States with divers productions and industrial pursuits. But now, since the Montgomery Congress has passed a new tariff, and duties are extracted on Northern goods sent to ports in the Cotton States, the traffic between the two sections will be materially reduced.
…
Another, and a more serious difficulty arises out of our foreign commerce, and the different rates of duty established by the two tariffs which will soon be in force.
…
The General Government, … to prevent the serious diminution of its revenues, will be compelled to blockade the Southern ports … and prevent the importation of foreign goods into them, or to put another expensive guard upon the frontiers to prevent smuggling into the United States.[Prediction and what could be done] From the Philadelphia Public Ledger as reported in the Richmond, VA Dispatch on March 19, 1861 (paragraph breaks mine):
The Revenue and Its Collection.
The last act of the United States Congress was to largely increase the rates of duties upon importations; the first act of the secession Confederation was to reduce them. The natural effect of these two diametrically opposite policies is to drive importations away from Northern ports and to send them to Southern ports, to avoid the duties.
There being no interior custom-houses, no collectors at the railroad stations, which extend from one State to another, or upon the great rivers which sweep through Southern and Northern States, there is nothing to prevent these importations into Southern ports from being sent to every Northern city, and foreign articles may be introduced, and sold under the very noses of those who were to be protected by a high tariff to the exclusion of the home production.
The Government can only prevent this by collecting duties at the mouth of Southern harbors, or establishing a chain of internal custom-houses all along the line which separates the United States from the seceding States. The latter there is no authority for till Congress shall authorize it, and the expense would be enormous. The former is attended with difficulties which are almost insurmountable. It might be an easy matter to station national vessels at the mouth of the Mississippi, or at the entrances to Savannah and Charleston, but the collection districts are so numerous that all the unemployed vessels in the American Navy would be required to guard them.
How the difficulty is to be got over is not so clear, though the consequence to Northern commerce of allowing goods to enter Southern ports under low duties, or none at all, are very evident. If secession is to be uninterred [uninterferred?] with, the only way to preserve the commerce of the North will be to open our ports free of duties. This is one of the inevitable consequences of successful revolution in the South, and the fact has got to be faced squarely./blockquote>[Repeal the Morrill tariff] From the New York Herald on March 19, 1861 (paragraph break mine):
" The combined effects of these two tariffs must be to desolate the entire North, to stop its importations, cripple its commerce and turn its capital into another channel; for, although there is specie now lying idle in New York to the amount of nearly forty millions of dollars, and as much more in the other large cities, waiting for an opportunity of investment, it will be soon scattered all over the country, wherever the most available means of using it are presented, and it will be lost to the trade of this city and the other Northern states. There is nothing to be predicted of the combination of results produced by the Northern and Southern tariffs but general ruin to the commerce of the Northern confederacy... “
“The tariff of the South opens its ports upon fair and equitable terms to the manufacturers of foreign countries, which it were folly to suppose will not be eagerly availed of; which the stupid and suicidal tariff just adopted by the Northern Congress imposes excessive and almost prohibitory duties upon the same articles. Thus the combination of abolition fanatics and stockjobbers in Washington has reduced the whole North to the verge of ruin, which nothing can avert unless the administration recognizes the necessity of at once calling an extra session of Congress to repeal the Morrill tariff, and enact such measures as may bring back the seceded States, and reconstruct the Union upon terms of conciliation, justice and right."[Repeal the Morrill Tariff; loan in trouble] From the Cincinnati Enquirer as reported in the Memphis Daily Appeal of March 27, 1861:
The New York and all Eastern Republicans are getting clamorous for an extra session. They now admit that, critical and extraordinary as the condition of the country is, the President is without power to take any effectual step toward its relief. He can effect no fixed and decisive policy toward the seceding States, because no laws give him authority to carry it into effect.
He cannot enforce the laws, because no power has been put at his command for that purpose. He cannot close the ports which refuse to pay Federal duties, nor has he the authority to enforce payment except through the local authorities. These, moreover, are the least of the difficulties which embarrass the action of the Government. This loan is called for, but there is no prospect of revenue to render it safe. The seceded States invite imports under the tariff of 1857, at least ten per cent. lower than that which the Federal Government has just adopted. As a matter of course, foreign trade will seek southern ports, because it will be driven there by the Morrill tariff. It has been stated that Secretary Chase has been heard to say that the tariff bill must be repealed.I’ve shown in other posts that the war, inflation in the North, and the Morrill Tariff seriously impacted Northern tariff revenue during 1861 and the rest of the war.
x, if all of these newspapers recognized the situation the North was in, but Lincoln didn’t, that would have been very odd. Lincoln was shrewd and smart. Though you may not accept it, his words to the delegation from Baltimore and separately to Baldwin in April 1861 are consistent with what a smart guy like Lincoln would have recognized. Or, perhaps you might argue that he was dumber than the newspapers and therefore couldn’t have believed those things or said them to his visitors in April 1861.
Your post frames and adds accurate perspective to the rapidly worsening financial conditions in the north.
No reserves in the US Treasury. Very high government debt. Domestic and international investors unwilling to buy debt.
No money to pay themselves.
So, loss of cash revenue would not be foremost on Lincoln’s mind?
I think not.
Exports from the United States were raw materials, foodstuffs, and manufactures that were surplus goods over and above the needs of the people. They found their way to the shipping centers of the Northeast and were sent to the foreign countries that paid the most for the goods.
Upon analysis of Census and Customs data of the 1850s, it is clear that the export trade of the country, with regard to the origin of the exports, was three quarters of the whole of Southern origin. Much of raw materials used in manufacturing was of Southern origin.
Specifically, in 1860, the total value of exports as measured at US Customs houses before shipment was $316 million. Items of Southern origin such as cotton, tobacco, rice, naval stores, sugar, molasses, hemp, wheat and other products, along with the value of the cotton used in Northern export manufactures comprised 78% of the export issue.
The manufactures of the North were a small proportion of US trade. Those companies had been operated under the protective system, avowedly because they could not compete with the English manufacturers in the US market, and therefore certainly could not in a European market.
The greatest increase in Northern manufacturing had taken place in cotton based goods, which had raw materials supplied in greater amounts due to increases in Southern production in the 1850s. The South afforded raw material for Northern manufacturing.
New England, where the barren hills did not produce either the metals or other raw materials for durable goods, or the fields to produce grain for food, was especially vulnerable to change. Improved transportation and the resulting competition from Western farmers caused farmers in the Northeast to reduce their production of grain and shift to dairy farming and truck gardening, both of which provided them with products to sell to city dwellers that would not face competition from Western farmers
If secession occurred and faced without a market for their manufactures, the people had no source of raw materials for their employment, or payment for their food.
According to census figures, in the 1850s, the South produced twice the amount of food per person than the New England states. In fact, New England grew less than the amounts needed to sustain their population, but the large manufacturing interest of that section enabled it to import food from the South and West in exchange for merchandise. New England was a net importer of its food, largely from the South.
Northern cities and states bought corn, flour, sugar, rice, tobacco, lumber, hides, beef, pork, lard, molasses, naval stores, hemp, vegetables, oysters, and fruits from the South. The value of Southern goods shipped North in 1860 was $460 million.
The Northern states had their raw materials and food brought to them, and sent back goods manufactured under the cover of protective tariffs
In 1860, the South imported $346 million dollars worth of products. Of this list of goods, $240 million came from the Northern manufacturers and suppliers, and imported goods sold to the South was $106 million.
The entire country imported $336 million dollars in goods for that same year.
Grasping the significance and the magnitude of difference between the new Confederate tariff and the recently passed Morrill tariff, and the likelihood that the South would now transfer this demand to European goods and trade directly with Europe, Northern businessmen, politicians, and newspapermen knew that the demand for goods from the South was immense and would have a far reaching impact on their economy.
Practically every New England citizen would be affected by the loss of Southern goods traveling through the North.
Any artisan engaged in building in the shipping trade would be hurt. Any carman engaged in carrying, any agent who sold manufacturers, any merchant who sold to consumers in the South, any shipper, ship builder, lumberman, or laborer would be hurt.
Any brokers, exchange dealers, bankers, insurers, warehousemen, or suppliers of goods to these people would be hurt.
The profits to Northern coffers that were about to be lost were:
Bounties to fisheries, per annum………………………………$1,500,000.
Customs, per annum, disbursed at the North…………………$40,000,000.
Profits of northern manufacturers…………………………….$30,000,000.
Profits of importers…………………………………………...$16,000,000.
Profits of shipping, imports, exports………………………….$40,000,000.
Profits of Travelers……………………………………………$60,000,000.
Profits of agents, brokers, commissions……………………….$10,000,000
Profits from capital drawn from the South…………………….$30,000,000.
Total Annual Revenue Lost………………………………… $226,500,000.
Sources: US Dept. of Treasury; "Southern Wealth and Northern Profits", Kettel; W. E. B. Dubois; Statistical History of the U.S.
In other words, the Union went to war over their pocket book, and not a moral crusade to either "save the Union" or to "free the slaves."
Those claims were just propaganda for the Masses.
Whoever wrote it has a gift for clear and concise prose.
And yet, faced with a violent rebellion and the loss of those markets the northern states managed to survive and even recover. Imagine that.
Lincoln enacted the first income tax during the war.
You are forgetting your history. This could have been published.
.......Boston Evening Transcript
Washington March 3, 1861-——Tomorrow President James Buchanan
leaves office having served eight years as the fifteenth Chief Executive of the
United States. Although the secession came during his administration,
despite the with drawl.of seven southern states, the remaining 18 are intact.
He leaves the United States Constitution residing undisturbed in the capital
in Washington. The House of Representatives and Senate will reconvene as
scheduled in five months. Chief Justice Roger B. Taney will preside over the
next term of the Supreme Court.
The Secretary of War, Joseph Holt reports no military activity in any areas
adjacent to the mason Dixon line. Army Commander General Winfield Scott
reports that the military is billeted as normal.
New York and Boston shipping houses are noting declines in imports landing
at their wharfs, but report that dry goods, machinery, passenger and mail
service with southern ports continues as usual.
With one exception, all federal facilities have been peacefully evacuated with
federal employees, their health intact, returning north by rail or ship.
Confederate government representatives are meeting in Washington with
officials to arrange for payment for these facilities and other debts resulting
from their withdrawal from the Union.
Last November, President Buchanan and Attorney General Black announced
that it was not within the authority of the government to institute military force to
address secession. He is to be congratulated for his respect for the constitution
and the peaceful lives of citizens everywhere.
Secession has removed slavery as an issue for either the courts or the territories,
and no longer preoccupies the interests of the legislature or press.
The following quote is from Mr. Buchanan’s most recent address to Congress
and demonstrates his respect for the country’s future:
“Self-preservation is the first law of nature, and has been
implanted in the heart of man by his Creator for the wisest purpose;
and no political union, however fraught with blessings and benefits
in all other respects, can long continue if the necessary consequence
be to render the homes and the firesides of nearly half the parties to
it habitually and hopelessly insecure.”
His commitment is manifest in the armistice arranged for Charleston and Pensacola.
It is now the responsibility of the next executive to maintain this peace.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.