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To: sargon

Well I will answer your assertion.

First off, there is more danger of splintering the party that just a Cruz nomination. The party could be split even with a Trump nomination.

Lets say Cruz does come in with 700 or so delegates, possible, but I believe the number to be higher, about 800 to 850. But regardless, lets use your numbers. Lets also premise that Trump does not get the 1,200+ necessary for a first round nomination. Why that premise? If Trump gets the first round nomination, all of this is simply navel gazing.

So lets say Trump has 1,100 and Cruz has 700 at the first round. Neither wins. But now there are many unbound delegates who are freed up for the next round. The second round looks to be either a three or four way split with Cruz picking up some unbounds and Trump loosing a few to either Cruz or whoever the GOPe candidate(s). Possible that Trump could gain enough for the 2nd round, but I really don’t see it.

Now here is the advantage for both Trump and Cruz. If both of them stay firm on rule 40 and their delegates vote to not change the rule, then the GOPe vote has to support one or the other in a two head race. So lets now call it Trump 1,000 Cruz 850. They realize that neither has a chance to win alone. Trump could “make it” with bringing either Cruz or the GOPe candidate on board. The danger is if EITHER Trump or Cruz delegates give up on rule 40. In that case, the GOPe nomination becomes a real possibility and the party ends up shattered and a lot of the conservatives and trump voters go elsewhere. I can even see a lot of people changing their party registration.

Options:
Unity ticket - Trump / Cruz not my preferred choice but I could live with it. This Solomon’s choice would sit well with conservatives and would keep roughly 20% of the party to support a unity ticket. This also shuts out the GOPe and moves the party solidly towards conservatism.

Leveraged ticket - Cruz trades his votes to have Trump put a Conservative on the ticket (Walker?) and nominate Cruz for SCOTUS. In my opinion, the best move. Keeps conservatives in play, removes Cruz from the field and puts a strong conservative on the court and in the VP position. Allows Trumps populism to gain independents without losing conservatives.

Lost ticket - Trump refuses Cruz’s offers and decides to put GOPe on ticket (Kasich or Rubio). This will likely buy Trump enough delegates. However, he will lose about 10% of the conservative base of the party. Maybe he makes it up with independents, In my opinion he will not. I am of the opinion that by the time elections roll around, there are just not that many undecided left to be won over. Sounds like a gamble to me. If he does, he will bring many more liberals into the party and shift the GOP further away from conservatism. In essence, it will fracture the party as the Tea Party (generally) voter will leave.

Another possibility
Trump 1,000 Cruz 850 leaves 670ish split between GOPe and unbounds.

Third round - Trump continues to push the he is the nominee and some of his comments have pissed off conservatives and poisoned the well against working with Cruz

Either the anti-Trump mentality resurfaces and the GOPe supports Cruz who wins the nominee. In my opinion, even as a Cruz supporter, the WORST of all possible outcomes. Trump supporters get pissed and don’t vote in the General (20% ish). Cruz looses to Hillary. The Trump camp says, see you needed to support us, the GOPe wing says you conservatives can’t win elections. This only gets worse if Trump runs independent.

Now if BOTH Trump and Cruz are denied the nomination and some GOPe candidate comes to the nomination. Then an independent Unity ticket might work. Might work. Might shatter the party.


66 posted on 04/22/2016 2:10:18 PM PDT by taxcontrol ( The GOPe treats the conservative base like slaves by taking their votes and refuses to pay)
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To: taxcontrol

Good stuff. As a Cruz supporter I want him as VP before he takes the Oval Office. Alas, in the last week I have been permanently disabused of any Trump/Cruz hope. I can easily vote for Trump if he chooses a *real* conservative VP for bench-warmer. I’m secure Cruz will check Trump from the Senate if the Admin swerves too far left...


91 posted on 04/22/2016 2:44:25 PM PDT by txhurl (There goes Unity.)
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To: taxcontrol
Thanks. Jeez, it took long enough.

Glad to see some Ted Cruz supporters starting to take a realistic stock of the actual situation.

But please realize that most Americans are thinking in much more direct, simplistic terms. That's why they're going to go ahead and give Trump the 1,237 he needs before the convention. My current feeling is that Trump has the wind at his back.

But even if Trump only comes very close, but doesn't have the 1,237 delegates beforehand, I thinks it's pretty much a slam dunk that he can scratch together the few more that are needed.

But even if that's not possible for the first ballot, I simply don't see how the delegates will suddenly overthrow the will of the people and sidestep a person who has both energized the voters, and who has an enormous popular vote advantage.

Cruz limping in with even 800 delegates or so, is a recipe for disaster and splintering the party, and defeating the Revolution which is brewing.

We need this Revolution, and with Cruz cozying up to the GOPe for the last few months, he simply cannot lead it.

So it's either Donald Trump, or the Revolution fails.

I ask you: who in their right mind would want that?

I still believe that Cruz is doing the wrong thing, and, given the perception that he has stolen delegates (rightly or wrongly), he's really being naive to think that he can pull off such a stunt.

I'm noticing a slight improvement in the rancor around here, but I still see a distinct lack of respect for Donald Trump and what he has accomplished. Those who insist on the constant derogation and insults are totally blind at this point, IMHO.

And the character issues that Cruz has displayed are not illusory. I still say this with disbelief: he played the race card on Donald Trump, for God's sake! For me, that was a clear sign of moral shortcomings, and it wasn't the last. Cruz has acted like an absolutely stereotypical politician on several occasions, and, equally bad, he's jumped in bed with the GOPe. There's no chance of Ted Cruz being an anti-Establishment candidate unless he's on the ticket with Trump.

Vote Trump

109 posted on 04/22/2016 3:00:40 PM PDT by sargon (No king but Christ!)
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