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To: fishtank; boycott; null and void; aMorePerfectUnion; Just mythoughts; RoadGumby; TexasGator; ...
fishtank:

Yes, I read the article, it's a crock of rubbish & nonsense.
Worse, it reveals what I've seen happen in other denier-populations: they eventually break down into non-denial denials.
In other words, they end up splitting theological hairs that make no real difference.

So where to even begin?
How about here: by definition of the terms, "adaption" = 1) descent with modifications and 2) natural selection = basic evolution.
In short, adaption = evolution = adaption = evolution ad infinitum.
The only differences are short-term versus long-term, and they are the same thing.

So, for some people to say, "oh, I believe in adaption, but not evolution" is just rubbish and nonsense.
They are the same thing.

But, but, but, say the anti-evos, they're not the same, because adaption always requires loss of DNA data, or changes to existing data, but never additional new data as would be required for speciation.

Again, rubbish & nonsense.

In fact, DNA itself cares nothing about whether a modification subtracts, changes or adds data, so long as the resulting offspring survive, prosper and reproduce.
Consider any example you wish -- if certain offspring are born slightly better able to run upright on two legs while others are slightly better able to climb trees, which one has "added" and which "subtracted" DNA information?
The answer is, as far as DNA is concerned, it doesn't matter except as there may be more or fewer trees to climb near-by any given population.

So adaption = evolution = adaption = etc., etc.

null and void: "I find it interesting that some of the people who reject the possibility of evolution happening over 100’s of millions or even billions of years have no trouble with it all happening since The Flood."

Exactly, but they call it "adaption", in hopes that will protect them from the dreaded "e-word".

aMorePerfectUnion: "I consider the diversity of species to just be natural selection and not evolution. "

Except that adaption = evolution = adaption = etc.

RoadGumby: "Evolution, changing of an organism to something new, is not true.
Adaptation is."

Except that biologically, adaption & evolution are the same thing, period.

RoadGumby: "You can breed dogs all day long, get LOTS of different forms....of dogs.
Get back to me when you get a Non-Dog."

Dogs are a species of wolves (genus: cauis) and, in fact, there are nine other species of non-dog wolves, including the closely related Grey Wolves.
But DNA studies show that none of those other species are ancestors of dogs, so the actual ancestors went extinct some time in the past 30,000+ years.

Point is: the data shows that over the past 30,000+ years human beings have created a new species of wolves: dogs.

afsnco: "Evolutionists modern sciences -- natural sciences -- reject a priori any hint of the supernatural.
But the supernatural is really the only explanation for even that most 'simple' single-celled organism."

Yes, agreed, but it's not just evolution theory, it's all of modern science -- see my correction above.
The name for all that is "methodological naturalism", and it means, in effect: when we put on our lab coats at work, we must set aside our religious beliefs in searching for natural explanations.

But it also means: when we take off our lab coats and go home to family and community, we can reassert our beliefs in the supernatural origins, guidance and destination of the natural realm.

afsnco: "Throw lifeless chemicals together and create life and prove creationists wrong."

All depends on your definition of that word, "life".
Already basic experiments have created pre-cursors of life, and theoretical work maps out some of its evolution to actual life.

boycott: "There should be far transitional fossils to support evolution.
The evidence just isn’t there."

Of course it is, literal tons of evidence.
But it's only visible to people who wish to see it.
You, for example, can stare at this photo all day long and never see a "transitional form". Why is that?

Theo: "Do you believe that sin preceded death, as the Scriptures teach?
Or that humanity developed out of cycles of life and death, as evolution teaches? "

Genesis 2 seems to me pretty clear on this: mankind was made out of dust, after which God breathed "the breath of life" into him and then man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."

jimmyray: "Perhaps you dismiss 1 Timothy 6:19-21 as a minor detail, and no warning at all?"

No, it's not a "minor detail", it's a mistranslation in King James.
The original word actually means not "science" but rather "proto-Gnostics", and is now translated in most other Bibles as "false knowledge".
But it is not just any old "false knowledge", it's false spiritual knowledge, the very opposite of modern natural-science.
Natural science, by definition, is intended to be non-spiritual and therefore is not the target of Paul's warnings.

angryoldfatman: "this leads to the possibility that the Biblical Adam was not the first Homo sapiens, but instead was the first one with a soul."

Yes, indeed, Genesis 2 is explicit on that: 1) dust of the earth, 2) creation of man 3) then breath of life creating a living soul.
Really, it's not that hard, if people would just read it.

zot: " I agree that the seven 'days' of Genesis were not 24 hours long."

You're in good company because so do both Old Testament and New Testament:

Psalms 90:4 "For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night."

2 Peter 3:8 "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

jimmyray: "You would have God actually speak a metaphor (lie, really) with His own voice, and subsequently write it with His own finger in stone (twice!)?
Is the length of a day in verse 9 different than the length of the day in verse 11?"

No, the Bible tells us clearly and unequivocally that God's day is not the same as ours, but He is totally satisfied if we keep one of our days Holy for Him.

Ostrich Boy: "And I have no idea why he won't admit he believes in Evolution."

It's theologians doing what theologians always do: splitting hairs, debating angels dancing on the head of a pin.

jimmyray: "Most creationists have no problem with rapid speciation, it's the evolutionary explanation for the origin of Genus we take issue with."

Now you're just blathering nonsense.

afsnco: "Both evolution and creation are faith-based beliefs."

Hardly, science is the opposite of "faith based", and totally depends on physical evidence.
It is also based on two great assumptions: 1) only natural explanations for natural processes and 2) processes we see today operated the same in Deep Time.

These assumptions are not just blind faith, since they are daily confirmed by innumerable observations (=facts) of people working in related fields, i.e., geology, paleontology, physics, astronomy, chemistry, biology, etc., etc.

48 posted on 04/13/2016 8:27:03 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

(CMI article caption for the image.) The Homo erectus skeleton of KNM-WT 15000 (left) is compared to the australopithecus afarensis skeleton of Lucy (right). There is a huge morphological gap between the essentially modern human postcranial skeleton of erectus and that of the australopithecine postcranial skeleton, as represented by Lucy. For example, the conical-shaped rib cage of Lucy suggests she was thick-waisted with a pot-bellied abdomen, like chimpanzees. Also, there is wide flaring of the ilia of Lucy’s pelvis, compared to the narrower ilia of humans. For further discussion, see Mehlert.113 (Image from Walker and Shipman.114)

http://creation.com/fossil-evidence-for-alleged-apemen-part-2-non-homo-hominids

My comment to your comment: That gallery of skulls might just be a combination of ape heads and human heads.

50 posted on 04/13/2016 11:02:50 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: All
Sorry for the typo:

Should read: "Dogs are a species of wolves (genus: canis).

51 posted on 04/13/2016 11:06:49 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK; fishtank; boycott; null and void; aMorePerfectUnion; Just mythoughts; RoadGumby; ...

Why does evolution matter so much to you, BroJoeK? Why did you feel compelled to type all of that out to all of these people?

If all the people who you’ve dedicated so much time and effort to rebutting here are indeed dead wrong about how biodiversity occurred, what harm does it do?


52 posted on 04/13/2016 11:11:24 AM PDT by angryoldfatman
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To: BroJoeK

Wolves, dogs, coyote, are Canines “dogs”. Breed them into FISH. Or perhaps a BIRD.

Diversity because of Adaptation is one thing, and PROVABLE. Evolution, the changing of form into an organism that is NOT what it originated from is NOT.


55 posted on 04/13/2016 12:10:11 PM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: BroJoeK
"Except that adaption = evolution = adaption = etc."

Thanks for sharing your opinions about this issue.

In your world view, it appears you believe these are equal.

In my world view they are vastly different.

Birds weren't anything other than birds. No new genes were created. Selection within the gene pool happened, yes.

56 posted on 04/13/2016 12:54:48 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (BREAKING.... Vulgarian Resistance begins attack on the GOPe Death Star.....)
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To: BroJoeK
Quote: "No, the Bible tells us clearly and unequivocally that God's day is not the same as ours, but He is totally satisfied if we keep one of our days Holy for Him."

"Now, you're just blathering nonsense", to quote fellow Freeper. The Bible is saying that the passage of time has no bearing on God, as He alone is immortal. Read all of Psalm 90, and keep it in context. The writer is referring to the brevity of our lives, and that God sees our lives from beginning to end, generation to generation. Peter is referring to the judgement to come, where the earth will be destroyed by fire, just as it once was by a global catastrophic flood, which I imagine you explain away as well. Incidentally, some take the 'day is a thousand years', and use the 6 days of creation to refer to the 6000 years of the time for Satan and men to rule the earth, until The Day is upon us.

You are isogetically reading into Genesis 1 the day-age nonsense, for it plainly states "evening and morning were the first day", and repeats that formula 5 more times. Just because your limited scientific (so called) understanding requires billions of years for evolution and light travel, does not mean that God did. He could create everything instantaneously, but he took 6 of our earth days to accomplish it.

So, if you dismiss the days as literal, then you must also dismiss the sequence, lest you have plants surviving thousands or millions of years with no sun or insects.

Believe what you want, but be careful about twisting scripture to meet your predetermined notions.

Matthew 18:6 If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

63 posted on 04/13/2016 4:40:58 PM PDT by jimmyray (there is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse)
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To: BroJoeK
Quote: "But it is not just any old "false knowledge", it's false spiritual knowledge, the very opposite of modern natural-science. Natural science, by definition, is intended to be non-spiritual and therefore is not the target of Paul's warnings."

Paul may well have had gnosticism in mind, but the warning is the same for your mud to man evolutionary assertions. When you change the plain meaning of scripture to comply with your predetermined notions, you are doing exactly what Paul warned against!

Here are Paul's words from the NIV, if you prefer, with a little more context: "Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have departed from the faith." 1 Tim 6:20-21.

65 posted on 04/13/2016 5:06:12 PM PDT by jimmyray (there is no problem so bad that you can't make it worse)
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