Posted on 03/30/2016 6:26:02 AM PDT by central_va
“Free trade” would more accurately be called “freedom for other countries to undercut and destroy American domestic production” because in practice that is what is happening. This is an undeniable fact that should be obvious to any consumer or business in this country. Very little of what is consumed here is made by American-owned companies operating in America. This was not formerly the case, and it was not how the wealth of this country was created.
Proponents of “free trade” justify their position by saying it is supplying American consumers with access to the lowest cost, most competitive market. However, this does not justify the terrible consequences. Proponents dismiss the destruction to American domestic production by wishfully thinking we will find new ways to reinvent ourselves. How will we continue to pay for these cheap foreign goods with no industry to generate our own wealth?
“Free trade” proponents fail to say that free access to subsidized foreign production is destroying America’s chances to be competitive.
(Excerpt) Read more at economyincrisis.org ...
Stupid. We are talking about labor arbitrage across international borders. Competition between Americans is good. Competition with the third world - bad. Very bad. Just shows deep down you are a stateless creature. Pathetic.
Bingo
Its not either or, I don’t think.
You have to create wealth, not just shuffle the same dollars around and the only way to do that is to create, usually via manufacturing something or by selling goods overseas at prices that bring net profits, such as agricultural products like the kiwis mentioned elsewhere.
So if a Proctor and Gamble is headquartered here but manufactures in Mexico, does that show as “American production”?
Because everyone loves to pull out charts showing how manufacturing is growing her in country but it sure doesn’t seem to match a lot of folks perceptions.
Nonsense. Capital has flowed to where it is treated best since civilization began tracking the flow of capital. For the entire 18th century, Britain ran a current account deficit and was a net importer of capital. But in the 19th century, the UK ran a current account surplus and was a net exporter of capital. When did Ricardo develop his theory on comparative advantage?
So you would hold that a manufacturing worker can move from one country to the next, as easily as capital can?
And for professionals, how about all the various licenses and restrictions? LOL.
There is one standard for the elites and capital, and a different standard for everyone else.
Embracing globalism is embracing socialism.
Many people pointed out this problem back in the early 1970’s before the Japanese automakers steamrollered the American auto industry.
Japan was selling more cars in America every year but made it almost impossible for any meaningful volume of US autos to be sold in Japan.
But most of the the US media and influential politicians from both parties ridiculed critics and demonized them.
That was a time when America was still an industrial giant with heavy industry employing millions at good wages.
But our politicians with their lopsided trade agreements let most of those industries die and sent the jobs to other countries.
For what?
More people on welfare and government handouts?
American workers have been hurt by:
High taxes
Massive bureaucracy
Regulation
Excessively attractive welfare
Fatherlessness
Educational failure
Infinite illegal immigration
Those things truly hurt our workers.
There is no doubt Americans have been hurt. The question is, what hurt them?
I recommend the list above, not their choosing freely with whom they traded.
Ad himinem attacks display the depth of your thinking.
I've learned that Free Traitors™ cannot be dealt with in a rational way. They expect you to answer their questions but they never answer yours if they don;t like it. Fascists. So screw you get of the thread of you don't like it. You just pollute it with your Free Trade crap defense.
You were wrong. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you're off on another meaningless tangent.
I don't know how you define "globalism" and I really don't care. Advocating for protectionist policies empowers government over the individual. I'm opposed to that. If more people would condemn government for over-regulating, over-taxing, and over-litigating American industry, and force the necessary changes, American industry would thrive beyond all your expectations. Asking government to fix a problem they created doesn't make much sense to me but that's exactly what you're doing.
Thank you for your kind, deep and thoughtful replies. I trust future readers can decide amongst themselves which of our arguments and styles are more attractive to their intellects.
Where is this “Free Trade” of which you speak?
Also consider that robotics is automating many repetitive jobs. If the third world labor don't get you the robots will.
We are entering a new economic paradigm. it's hard to see how it will work. I don't know if it is possible to stop it. Certainly we can fight for fair trade. But if we try to reverse course, I think we will be left in the dust by rest of the world.
Wow. I’ve never seen anyone post something three times to themselves here.
But I am NOT wrong. I am right.
Do you think we should attempt to emulate China? There is such as thing as too much regulation. And then there is China, with Beijing air and the rivers you can walk across.
Capital can flee NOW with the click of a mouse button. Could you do that in the 19th century?
I’ll save you the trouble of answering. NO.
Ok, sure. You just keep telling yourself that.
Since your memory is about as good as your reasoning skills, let's look at what you said again: Ricardo's "comparative advantage" was written in an era when capital couldn't flee.
But capital did flee. It went to the UK and then away from it. Just like in most other countries from the 17th - 21st centuries. You can throw yourself on the floor screaming and kicking about being right, but you were wrong here and will continue to be wrong.
But now it can flow faster thanks to the click of a mouse? Great. Thanks for stating the obvious. You're still wrong.....along with every other conclusion.
So an American worker who is put out of work by manufacturing moving to China is every bit as able to move to China and work in one of the factories, as is the capital able to move?
And what do you propose to do about the disintegration of the middle and working classes? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
My conclusion of you being in favor of doing trade deal after trade deal, is that you are either insane or you favor the result: disintegration of the middle class.
And do any of your “theories” of comparative advantage take into account what will happen when Americans go to a different extreme. When they either can’t elect a Sanders or a Trump, or they do and nothing changes, then they burn down the damn country?
What does comparative advantage say about a French Revolution style insurrection that burns the country down and destroys half the wealth? You may be blind to the danger, but I’m not.
And what is your solution for lower wages? Those lower wages that buy cheap shit from China don’t buy more college education, more healthcare or more easily pay for houses or apartment rent.
Economists are just whores and propagandists for the modern elites, just like the religious leaders were whores for the ancient and feudal elites.
Moral arguments “I should be able to trade with who I want to” pale in comparison to the freedom that will be lost when the peasants start demanding free shit that we all know won’t be free.
Not only that, but what happens when China stops with the pretending of being our “friend”, and decides to go to war. What then?
Should we have had “Free Trade” with the Japs in the 1930s when they were waltzing into Manchuria and Nanking?
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