Posted on 03/09/2016 3:43:27 AM PST by expat_panama
...when making laws or economic decisions, it is imperative that we examine not only what is seen but also what is unseen. In other words, examine the whole picture...
...A concrete example was the Bush administration’s 8% to 30% tariffs in 2002 on several types of imported steel. They were levied in an effort to protect jobs in the ailing U.S. steel industry.
Those tariffs caused the domestic price for some steel products, such as hot-rolled steel, to rise by as much as 40%....
...there is no such thing as a free lunch...
...steel-users — such as the U.S. auto industry, its suppliers, heavy construction equipment manufacturers and others — were harmed by higher steel prices.
It is estimated that the steel tariffs caused at least 4,500 job losses in no fewer than 16 states, with more than 19,000 jobs lost in California, 16,000 in Texas and about 10,000 each in Ohio, Michigan and Illinois.
In other words, industries that use steel were forced to pay higher prices...
...back in 2002, the typical hourly wage of a steelworker ranged between $15 and $20, in addition to fringe benefits — so we might be talking about an annual wage package averaging $50,000 to $55,000 — how much sense did it make for American consumers to have to pay $800,000 in higher prices, not to mention lost employment in steel-using industries, to save each job?
It would have been cheaper to tax ourselves and give each of those 1,700 steelworkers a $100,000 annual check...
...When Congress creates a special privilege for some Americans, it must of necessity come at the expense of other Americans...
...Congress ought to get out of the miracle business and leave miracle-making up to God.
(Excerpt) Read more at investors.com ...
Face it, you don’t have a clue how many more people would be employed or at what level if the United States didn’t export its technology and manufacturing overseas.
Not to mention the recurring benefit of having those wages spent in the United States and taxes on those wages & spending going into domestic treasuries.
“What’s stupid about a willing buyer and a willing seller coming together to make a deal that is perfectly legal with the least amount of government interference possible? “
Nothing, but that is not the world we live in...we have stupid trade where we have no constraints, except on our own businesses. While the other nations are free to manipulate their currency, charge tariffs and other barriers of entry, and subsidize their businesses in many cases. They also insist oftentimes that our companies build plants in their nation to sell there. So, we lose jobs, and employers for “cheap products” It is a very high price to pay...
I love unintentional irony and you've just provided a load of it.
Yawn...gfy
Trump will cut your taxes...
OK, let's hijack the thread (like I said in post #1) to talk Trump.
We don't know he will cut taxes. Nobody does. Here's why. While you may be remembering some time when he said he'd cut taxes and at the same time a lot of other people say they remember him promising to raise taxes. On video we got an example here and here where says he wouldn't and also that he should and he would raise taxes.
None of that matters; what counts is the fact that a lot of clowns want to raise my import taxes (like the links show Trump sort of kind of threatening to maybe) so they can "protect" them and their friends. Imho we're looking at a loony extreme leftwing welfare state.
...
So if they do stupid things that hurt their economy and punish their consumers, we should do the same thing? Shooting yourself in the foot because your competitor is shooting himself int he foot doesn't make much sense to me.
It is a very high price to pay...
And your solution is to empower government, the entity that causes the problems, to solve the problems. What could possibly go wrong? Consumers freely choosing what products and services are in their best interest and allow them to buy more with their declining income is bad? 200 million people shopping at Wal-Mart every week say you're wrong.
OOOO Did I hitums wittle nerve? Your profound ignorance is showing
Lol...we’re taking the country back whether pinheads like you like it or not.
” While you may be remembering some time when he said he’d cut taxes and at the same time a lot of other people say they remember him promising to raise taxes. “
Typical Cruzbot inane statement. If you are so smart, why don’t you go look at Trump’s tax platform. You will see he is cutting taxes and indeed raising some others. It isn’t a secret, it is public information and he has been consistent on this. I swear, there are so many truly brainwashed Cruz supporters...sad really.
I think you may have a little bit of control freak problem...what gives you the idea you can control what people say on any thread? It is a little strange expat_panama...think about it.
“So if they do stupid things that hurt their economy and punish their consumers, we should do the same thing? Shooting yourself in the foot because your competitor is shooting himself int he foot doesn’t make much sense to me. “
Of course it doesn’t....ladala...ladala...oh boy...
“And that leverage is to either tax it with a tariff, which U.S. consumers would pay, or refuse to import it, which would leave U.S. consumers without.”
We need to negotiate using all the arrows in our quill with recalcitrant China and If that includes the imposition of tariffs or blocking imports why refuse to use them? I believe they would only have to be temporary to achieve the desired result. That’s where some of the confusion lies. The long term effects of such policies would admittedly be detrimental to us but China would capitulate. China’s economy is very vunerable right now. They would be hurt more than we would. For us the short term spike in prices would have no real long term effects on us and it would be a rare exception indeed that a Chinese product would not be available from an alternate source.
So look at using tariffs and import blockades not as an end in themselves or something permanent, but rather as a means of negotiating a better and more prosperous trade posture with China. Take them off the table as you advise and you have doomed any negotiations to failure.
Because U.S. consumers will pay the taxes and U.S. workers will lose jobs when the rest of the work retaliates.
I believe they would only have to be temporary to achieve the desired result.
What exactly is the desired result?
For us the short term spike in prices would have no real long term effects on us and it would be a rare exception indeed that a Chinese product would not be available from an alternate source.
If the goal is a level playing field in our international trade then why are you targeting only China?
So look at using tariffs and import blockades not as an end in themselves or something permanent, but rather as a means of negotiating a better and more prosperous trade posture with China.
What would that better end look like?
I would be in favor of a floating tariff that would kick in when oil dropped below 40/bbl. This would keep the domestic oil industry pumping and help get us off foreign oil. Once oil went back up above 40 then the tariff would come off.
...Typical Cruzbot...
Ah, so if I'm a bad guy then there aren't a lot of people thinking Trump will raise import taxes. Let me check those links I shared. Nope, even w/ me being bad guy they still say they remember Trump calling for a 45% hike followed by Trump saying he never said he would but that he would if and he should...
And all this time I thot I was so important here.
You and the other Bernie supporters
The price of domestic oil would go up to match the tariffed imported oil price that is the point, that is a good thing that is what I want. It also raises revenue and could be used to lower corporate tax rates.
Thanks. So your previous claims that you don't pay a higher price if you don't buy the import were wrong.
Wasn’t me who made that comparison, it was Milton Friedman. You may have heard of him...or not.
Interesting. Thanks
bkmk
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