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To: Vendome

“It will be outright destruction of your 4th amendment rights, while they catalog your 1st amendment acts “Against the State and a Present Danger”

Wrong. It will change nothing. To crack a phone will still require a court order and reasonable cause, NOTHING will change about the 4th amendment.

The people trying to change the 4th is the corrupt companies trying to sell an un-crackable phone - which puts people above the law. Think about it. You really want ISIS, drug cartels and kiddie porn sellers networking with these new encrypted phones protected from LEGALLY court ordered surveillance?

No one is changing the Constitution...they are changing what they are selling. The software itself is what needs to be written in such a way that it can be opened by a court order after all the legalities are done as they always have been. When the law was written has nothing to do with whether there is common sense in it. Limited resources are common sense too. How many agents and judges are there to look at all y’alls pictures of your dog?


11 posted on 02/25/2016 4:20:08 PM PST by jessduntno (The mind of a liberal...deceit, desire for control, greed, contradiction and fueled by hate.)
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To: jessduntno

You’d be right if the FBI were asking Apple to crack the phone. But they’re not. They’re asking Apple to develop software that can be sued to crack a lot of phones and then to give it to the FBI.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-seeks-to-force-apple-to-extract-data-from-about-12-other-iphones-1456202213

And you’re trusting the FBI to get a warrant when they need to do this despite the facts that Edward Snowden made public that prove the FBI could care less about warrants.


16 posted on 02/25/2016 4:28:28 PM PST by MeganC (The Republic of The United States of America: 7/4/1776 to 6/26/2015 R.I.P.)
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To: jessduntno

Really? So reasonable cause is all they require?

Whew! I feel so much better for the explanation.

Thnx


17 posted on 02/25/2016 4:28:45 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway - "Enjoy Yourself" ala Louis Prima)
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To: jessduntno

Oh, and I didn’t realize it was you, when I posted my response.

LOL!

Good to see you again...


18 posted on 02/25/2016 4:29:40 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway - "Enjoy Yourself" ala Louis Prima)
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To: jessduntno

BTW, a bit of a long read but, well worth perusing:
https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-government-data-requests-2015#results-summary


20 posted on 02/25/2016 4:32:20 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway - "Enjoy Yourself" ala Louis Prima)
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To: jessduntno
The people trying to change the 4th is the corrupt companies trying to sell an un-crackable phone - which puts people above the law. Think about it. You really want ISIS, drug cartels and kiddie porn sellers networking with these new encrypted phones protected from LEGALLY court ordered surveillance?

Here is the problem I have with this: First, the government wants to establish a precedent to compel private companies to create new software that makes it easier for the government to do their jobs. This is not merely about Apple giving the feds access to tools already created, this is the feds ordering Apple to create new software. Which is conscription (or slavery to be less charitable). Once that horse left the barn there is no putting it back. What limit would there be on the government to compel anyone to do anything?

Secondly, currently the government says that this is only to fight heinous crimes like terrorism or child pornography. Tomorrow it will be for things that aren't so heinous: non-mainstream pornography, soft drug use, and who knows what else. The sad fact is that there are so many laws that a typical American breaks many of them a week and they don't even realize it. In the past it was just too cumbersome for the government to utilize the manpower to go after all the inadvertent scofflaws. With a network a all-seeing computers that can sneak into all phones it won't be hard for the government to read your text messages, emails, and search your phone contacts for known drug dealers, tea-party subversives, socialist subversives, etc. I don't believe the 4th amendment won't stop them, because the NSA has established a precedent of mass surveillance of entire population to find terrorists (the needle in the haystack problem). It's for the good of the collective, after all.

Finally, it's important to realize that all social movements throughout history started with people breaking the laws of their era. Agree with them or not, the civil rights movement, gay rights, legalization of marijuana in some states, etc. were illegal in the past. Now they are not because enough people banded together and tried to change the laws. If these movements were snuffed out before they got rolling by a government that has a vested interest in keeping the status quo, would you say that's a good thing? I don't. I may not agree with other people on controversial issues but I do respect that they have a right to agitate for the change they want to see. Pervasive surveillance could strangle that in the womb.

33 posted on 02/25/2016 6:14:29 PM PST by Sirloin (Whoosh!)
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