Posted on 02/12/2016 9:07:05 AM PST by AndyJackson
The creditors get paid.
Now, as to restructuring the company, sometimes it must lay off employees, restructure contracts with suppliers, etc.
Pursuing the same business plan would almost always be rejected by the courts, and certainly by the creditors.
Kinda like Cruz crawling in bed with Beck?
Nah, couldn’t be.
Based upon that logic..he is really not responsible for the bankruptcies either.
Think about it.
You can’t have it both ways.
The Chapter 11 form of bankruptcy allows the company to keep operating, protecting the jobs of the little people -- the waiters, cleaners, dealers, chefs, cooks, valets, managers, etc. The loss is in projected revenues, and is shared by all the investors.
Trump hires managers to run his companies, but I think he is a bit more than a figurehead. Hey Donald, you can't fire me. Your just a figurehead.
Right, he hires the managers who run each of those companies.
Sure he does. He sits through interviews for 500 positions. yep, indeed
Re: “Making statements like that show your ignorance of business and how EVERYONE in business plays the game when push comes to shove.”
My statement was made in the context of the utterly false claim that no Trump creditor has lost money in Trump’s four bankruptcies.
The only reason a creditor goes into litigation is because the creditor is certain he is going to lose money, but the creditor is hoping he will be able to limit that loss in a courtroom.
If no Trump creditor ever lost money in a Trump Chapter 11 company, why doesn’t Trump state that publicly?
I know how the Chapter 11 case was resolved.
I have no idea what happened to the hotel and Trump's remaining equity after that.
And, as far as I know, the hotel's financial accounts have never been made public.
Re: “Did you vote for Romney?”
Yes, I did.
And, yes, I know Romney negotiated a $10 million debt reduction for Bain and Company with the FDIC.
But, Romney was hired by Bain and Company after that debt crisis began.
Before that, Romney was a partner at Bain Capital, a completely separate company, and he had no involvement at all in the decisions that nearly bankrupted Bain and Company.
Re: “Example, my business has $1M note due in 6 months but does not have $1M, but I do have $250K in excess income. So, I file for Chapter 11...”
No, you would not file for Chapter 11.
Chapter 11 is major surgery on a critically ill business.
If this was the first time you had ever struggled to make a payment, you would immediately look for other sources of financing, or attempt to sell some part of your equity.
Or, you would sit down with your current banker and do your best to change your payment schedule.
You do not pay lawyers to negotiate a settlement you could negotiate yourself.
If you filed a Chapter 11 case on your two examples, the judge would say exactly the same thing I said: “Why are you wasting the Court’s time if you have a realistic plan to make everyone whole?”
It only goes to Chapter 11 when there is no realistic plan - and everybody takes a financial haircut.
Total BS. It goes to Chapter 7 when there is no realistic plan.
OK - it’s total BS.
So, tell me the names of some successful corporations that have emerged from Chapter 11 and have made all their creditors whole.
Good Luck - since only about 1% of Chapter 11 plans call for full payment to all creditors.
In fact, less than 15% of companies actually emerge from Chapter 11.
The other 85% either go to Chapter 7, or the debtors and creditors reach an out of court settlement.
In other words, in 99% of Chapter 11 cases, the creditors take some kind of haircut, which was my main point from my very first post.
My purpose in these Comments is not to slap you around, Andy.
Hopefully, this slightly unpleasant experience with a fellow Conservative will give you and other Trump supporters some idea what the MSM and the Democratic election professionals are going to do to Trump if he gets nominated.
Hopefully, you will have a better argument with them than you did with me.
A search around the internet demonstrates that commonly held shiboleth to be combination of a lie, a damn lie and the misuse of statistics. There are numerous law review articles on this, such as THE SUCCESS OF CHAPTER 11: A CHALLENGE TO THE CRITICS" or this paper by the office of the US Trustees OUTCOMES OF CHAPTER 11 CASES: U.S. TRUSTEE DATABASE SHEDS NEW LIGHT ON OLD QUESTIONS
Here is the problem with your damn lies. According to the U.S. Trustees, about 30% of reorganizations are affirmed (a successful plan filed and accepted); some 20% or so are converted to chapter 7; and 41% are dismissed after an out of court settlement is reached AFTER FILING.
Dimsissal after an out of court settlement would be a success. In fact a few of Trump's bankruptcies were resolved in exactly this manner.
You haven't slapped me around, and not it isn't "unpleasant." I just would hope that you would have learned your lesson to go do your own goddamned research.
Think about the question you just stated and asked.
It answers itself, because the rules of the game, prior to playing, dictate there WILL BE gains and loses. It is the nature of business.
The goal, naturally, is to try to WIN all the time. That is VERY difficult to do. Ask the Carolina Panthers about that.
On the other hand, you have the Tennessee Titans who won only 3 of 13 games are still in the league and have renewed hopes for 2016.
Trump's business record is "ALL in the GAME." Accept it!.. it's water under the bridge.
Only for someone who believes - like you - that a “dismissal” means that all creditors have been, or will be, made whole.
Once again, in my initial post, I stated this:
(1) Trump needs to release all documents related to his four Chapter 11 companies.
(2) And Trump needs to use his $4 billion net worth to make all his former creditors whole.
If he does not make all his creditors whole, I stated he is morally unfit to be president.
Andy, Trump has written books and bragged about ripping off the banks!
What do you think the MSM and the Democrats, and quite possibly Cruz and the Republicans, are going to do with those quotes in the coming elections?
Re: “Here is the problem with your damn lies. According to the U.S. Trustees, about 30% of reorganizations are affirmed (a successful plan filed and accepted)...”
How does that contradict what I said?
I said less than 15% of Chapter 11 companies “emerge” from Chapter 11.
From memory...
About 15,000 new Chapter 11 cases are filed each year.
About 100 to 200 Chapter 11 companies complete the entire Chapter 11 process each year.
All the other companies either move into Chapter 7, or the creditors accept an out-of-court haircut.
Let's give Donald Trump the last word in this discussion.
From Trump's book Think BIG and Kick Ass in Business and Life:
“I figured it was the bank's problem, not mine. What the hell did I care? I actually told one bank, “I told you you shouldn't have loaned me that money. I told you the goddamn deal was no good.”
Bye, Andy.
Nice chatting with you.
Best short summary by lawyers on this.
DONALD TRUMP HAS NEVER FILED PERSONAL BANKRUPTCY. NONE of the hundreds of companies he acquired ever filed liquidation bankruptcy. FOUR of them filed for REORGANIZATION where the creditors AGREE to a repayment plan.
Let an expert explain it to you.
Law Dictionary: How is Donald Trump Able to File for Bankruptcy So Many Times?
http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-is-donald-trump-able-to-file-for-bankruptcy-so-many-times/
Written by James Hirby Fact checked by The Law Dictionary staff
People might ask “How is Donald Trump able to file for bankruptcy so many times?” The answer is “He didn’t.” Trump himself has never filed for bankruptcy. His corporations have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy four times. By filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the corporation is allowed to continue running while restructuring and reducing its debt. By allowing the business to continue, employees still have their jobs and the business is still making money. Corporate debts still need to be repaid but they may be reduced. The corporation must develop a repayment plan and corporate budget. Both must be approved by the creditors and by the bankruptcy court.
Exactly. Contrary to Rubio’s lies and Cruz’s lies about Trump and Bko’s, MOST people only know about the kind of BKO they file to escape all debt (like most here on FR.... how many of them have filed??!)
Cruz is a LAWYER...he KNOWS he lied about this.
“https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Companies_that_have_filed_for_Chapter_11_bankruptcy";
Thanks, that is very interesting.
” Owning casinos actually says something about a person’s character imo.”
Yeah? Does it show anything about character to take their $$$? Cruz certainly wooed casino owner Sheldon Adelson and others long enough.
“Las Vegas casino titans Sheldon Adelson and Steve Wynn both gave the maximum they could to the campaign during the last campaign fundraising quarter,”
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/11/politics/ted-cruz-marco-rubio-2016/index.html
Keep repeating the lie....Saul Alinsky??
Fact-checking claims about Donald Trump’s four bankruptcies
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/3396218/posts?page=96#96
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