Unconfirmed Reports Suggest Militia Leader LaVoy Finicum Killed In Firefight With Police - http://breaking911.com/highways-closed-hospital-on-lockdown-near-scene-of-burns-ore-militia-standoff-after-reports-of-shots-fired/ …
Posted on 01/28/2016 10:11:03 PM PST by Nachum
Oregon protest leader Ammon Bundy and seven others were arrested Tuesday night. Protester LaVoy Finicum was killed in the confrontation with police and the FBI.
Unconfirmed Reports Suggest Militia Leader LaVoy Finicum Killed In Firefight With Police - http://breaking911.com/highways-closed-hospital-on-lockdown-near-scene-of-burns-ore-militia-standoff-after-reports-of-shots-fired/ …
On Wednesday Cliven Bundy, father of Ammon Bundy, told reporters his son told him the FBI murdered militia spokesman LaVoy Finicum with his hands up.
“LaVoy Finicum was murdered. Cold-blooded murder. They shot him with his hands up.â€
(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...
“I see no evidence that shots were firred at the first stop”
....
I do see evidence of shots fired at the first stop, and that is when / why / the only reason that / he drove on (and not at a break-neck speed but at normal highway speed). As the witness in his vehicle testified, being shot at when they legitimately stopped at LE command, is when they knew it was “serious”. IE he drove off because his vehicle was receiving fire, and that is the only way he had any chance of saving the lives of his innocent passengers, esp. the women. You may disagree. May FOI and anything and all else give us the truth, but her statement corresponds to the video: they were fired upon, and then forthwith, LeVoy drove off to save their lives. Who would have done otherwise? OK post your names? WHO would have stood as a sitting duck, being fired upon? With innocent women in the vehicle? Just asking.
“within any normal response to such a situation”
...
and isn’t that part of the problem?? Overly militarized LE and hair-trigger training??
OH yes their superiors put them in a no-win situation.
However. The response to the civilians dead and traumatized should be, the same as for a superior for a messed up operation:
No excuse, SIR!
I am NOT buying it. Look at the militarized response which how many dollars and how much manpower put into effect, for TWO TRUCKS and several cowboys / ranchers and some women. REALLY? You can justify THAT response to a effect the arrest of peaceable protesters? Not me, thank you very much, retired Army that I am. It was not LeVoy’s decisions that led to his death, but the obscenely over-reaction by military power. LOOK at the video and what they did to the truck with the women inside, which presented at that time NO THREAT and tell me that the overly militarize response and hair-trigger training of law enforcement was appropriate.
They never had any intention of shooting it out.
They’d seen these guys for days as they brought in more and more resources. They were outnumbered, out gunned, with the feds having drones, choppers, fix wing aircraft, and all kinds of neat tax paid stuff.
No way were they going to shoot it out with them in a planned ambush on a lonely stretch of highway. They were sitting ducks and they all knew it.
They were not attempting go around the road block. Blind curve, they never saw the road block in time to stop. It was all planned. Due to the driver speed there was no way to stop. All the driver had time to do was swerve to his left into the snow. He didn’t even have time to think except veer left.
As the truck veered left, the LEO mistakenly thought they were going to ram the road block, so he ran the wrong direction, right towards the path of the truck.
They had no intention of striking the LEO and the only thing the driver had time to do was veer left into the snow.
Just my opinion.
I want to hear the audio and see the wounds on the deceased for starters.
They'd seen these guys for days as they brought in more and more resources. They were outnumbered, out gunned, with the feds having drones, choppers, fix wing aircraft, and all kinds of neat tax paid stuff.
No way were they going to shoot it out with them in a planned ambush on a lonely stretch of highway. They were sitting ducks and they all knew it.
Yeppers. Murder and land grab for mineral rights.
It sure appears that way Lucy.
“some of that training is bad tactics”
bad tactics, bad strategy, bad training, not to be excused or condoned on any level.
In the final analysis, the guy with the red dot on a guy’s body, also bears some responsibility. The human gut knows, after all??
“Normal” response? for a “normal” person with a “normal” conscience? Seems there is some examination of conscience to be done, even if not criminal culpability. Above all, the over militarization and hair-trigger training of LE HAS to be addressed.
LeVoy did not need to die; those in his vehicle did not need to be pummeled with rounds. LE training is in great need of reform, if this situation is an example of “legitimate” response to “legitimate” training.
As others have posited, these rules of engagement in Oregon on our soil, exceed what are allowed by our fighters on foreign soil. I have to agree with that assessment. We we taught and trained on the Geneva Convention, on how to save cultural treasures, to avoid collateral damage to civilians, even at the expense of our own and our troops’ lives, heaven help us to exercise judgment to protect our own troops within the rules of engagement, but that is what we had to do, we had to do both! Who is prepared to let go this pummeling of a civilian vehicle on a civilian highway in these Unites States, go excused? Excuse me for asking! In a foreign theater, it could well be deigned a War Crime! Yet, none even here, much less in society at large, are protesting the pummeling of a civilian vehicle in a filmed assault, with not only presumed guilty but also known innocent hence collateral innocents involved? You freepers decry the hands of our warriors tied in foreign wars into which they are sent for better or for worse, yet you would ALLOW this travesty to be understood as a legitimate exercise of domestic police power?? PLEASE EXPLAIN as inquiring minds are wondering.
Agree.
I mentioned early here the truck occupants were treated as if they were wanted, known international mass murdering terrorist with very violent backgrounds. And just days prior, many of the same protesters met with, joked and shook hands with the FBI guys after voluntarily driving over to meet with the FBI.
This from a Facebook friend who is contact with family of Shawna Cox.
Shawna Cox was released from jail yesterday.
Her son in law was killed last night in a fire when his garage exploded. They aren’t sure what caused the explosion. Please keep them in your prayers. This family has been through SOO much!
PLEASE PRAY FOR THESE PATRIOTS!!
“the truck occupants were treated as if they were wanted, known international mass murdering terrorist with very violent backgrounds. And just days prior, many of the same protesters met with, joked and shook hands with the FBI guys after voluntarily driving over to meet with the FBI.”
...
Precisely! So how did it come to death and terror tactics against the passengers in the truck?!?
I am beyond knowing how to legitimately protest this outrage. I as many others, thought the original peaceful occupation to be ill-advised because they did not have a coherent plan or exit strategy; but there is no doubt that they had legitimate grievances for the Hammonds etc, and that grievance stands, now magnified by those arrested for peaceable protest and occupation, which we might remember has been an American tradition all along. Alcatraz under Reagan as Governor and Nixon as President, allowed for 19 months as long as they were peaceful. So WHAT was the great emergency to evict peaceful occupants of an unoccupied sanctuary?? Reagan as Governor and Nixon as President did not send in the 8th Fleet to Alcatraz for goodness’ sakes! WHAT exactly was the Reason to use a military assault against peaceable protestors? Above all, what was the great emergency or hurry? If the maligned Reagan as Governor and Nixon as President could have Patience for 19 months, what gives with this FBI, this administration?? Death over patience?
That does not compute with me. There is Occupy Wall Street, burning of Ferguson MO and Baltimore, but somehow the feds have to come down on peaceful protesters at an remote, uninhabited refuge in uninhabited parts of Oregon? when no businesses were torched, no citizens threatened?
This from a Facebook friend who is contact with family of Shawna Cox.
Shawna Cox was released from jail yesterday.
Her son in law was killed last night in a fire when his garage exploded. They aren't sure what caused the explosion. Please keep them in your prayers. This family has been through SOO much!
PLEASE PRAY FOR THESE PATRIOTS!!
Thanks, AzKathy.
SO SAD! Dear Lord.
Thanks very much for telling us.
Prayers sent and I will continue to pray.
Well said.
In response to Jeff Head and others who have said that the result was inevitable because of:1) the LEO training; and 2) Mr. Finicum’s actions, I agree.
But the unfortunate fact is that the term “armed and dangerous” keeps getting tossed around without being properly challenged. The only people at the scene who war both armed and dangerous were operating under color of authority. Saying that because Finicum left the first stop, or that he nearly hit someone who jumped in front of the truck at a roadblock set up at the exit of a turn on a highway, he is somehow “dangerous” is playing into the military mindset of the guys who use it to justify their obvious overreaction to the situation.
As for being armed, there is nothing wrong with possessing a firearm. The fact that only the LEOs actually grasped and pointed firearms at anyone show how specious the whole argument is. If you or I dare to EVER point a firearm at another human, we would be charged with deadly assault, whether or not it was ever fired. Point one at an LEO and it is an automatic death sentence, courtesy of any LEOs within sight.
So, again, exactly who was “armed and dangerous”?
” is playing into the military mindset of the guys who use it to justify their obvious overreaction to the situation.”
EXACTLY! And bear in mind that such overreaction on foreign soil might be considered a war crime. The LE response in that light has to be considered gross overreaction.
No Excuse, SIR, a real trooper or public servant would admit. Let’s see if any of them does, and not holding our breaths.
In addition as you say, the alleged “perps” who were subject to a military assault, rather than a mere Constitutional LE arrest and apprehension, were not guilty of murder and mayhem, but merely peaceful occupation which has been in the American tradition long before the ‘60s but especially since then. Alcatraz occupation 19 months under Reagan and Nixon, HEY what is the hurry here, O’ and Lynch? etc, Gov of Oregon and her State Police? What is the hurry, to ambush and kill protesters, the likes of which Reagan and Nixon had the patience to wait out? Where does your blood-lust come from? You, the TOLERANT? HA! Give us all a break.
Thanks Lucy This is scary business. I want Freepers to know, these are peaceful Patriots and it has gotten very ugly.
Still, as an observer myself, I have to say that I notice a colossal disparity in the relative forces being brought to bear in this controversy.
On the one hand, we have the overwhelmingly disproportionate, seemingly unlimited power and authority of federal law enforcement. On the other, we have this slender, relatively frail "little" man, Lavoy -- a man without any criminal history -- standing up for his First Amendment rights -- of free association, and of petitioning the federal government for redress of grievances, utilizing peaceable means.
The fact that he mounted his peaceable protest on so-called "federal lands" is completely immaterial to the exercise of his legitimate first-amendment rights. There is nothing in the First Amendment that tells a citizen where, or where not, he can mount a peaceable protest. The First Amendment makes no distinction between the private or public spheres as legitimate venues for First Amendment exercises in free association and petitions for redress....
Good grief, if we need permission from the State in order to hold such a protest, together with the manner and place where it can be held, then how is this any different from the latest rage in the Ivy Halls of Academe, to segregate "safe zones" from the rest of the public commons, where a person can elect to go so to feel "safe" from any and all incoming "hate speech?" Which is defined as "any public speech I personally dislike?"
IMHO, Lavoy was deliberately picked off, a lamb sacrificed on the alter of Washington-style political correctness. Just to make a point to the rest of us.
If it weren't to be Lavoy, going in, then it would have been somebody else. All I'm saying is, the Feds needed a sacrificial lamb to reassert their authority over the States and the People. And with Lavoy (R.I.P.), they got one. <[p> I for one am very sympathetic to this question: How can it be that the Federal Government "owns" as much as 80 to 90 percent of the territory within the boundaries of several sovereign states? And manages that territory completely independently of the State authorities, and the people the States are sworn to serve?
In the case of the Bureau of Land Management, a subsidiary of the Department of the Interior, wild horses and burros are being sacrificed to political interests at the speed of light. Jeepers, you have all you can do just to complain, to remind these callous bureaucrats that these icons of American history were never intended for the meat packer. Which, of course, would be perfectly fine with some of the "cattle interests" that pay big bucks to Washington to secure their own particular interest, against all others.
In so many ways, our American system has sunk into abject corruption. But hardly anybody can speak the language of morality anymore. Indeed, to even speak that language seems to be a huge faux pas these days....
God bless you, dear Jeff, and all your loved ones! Thank you so very much for writing!
Oh, I meant to ping you to this: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3390085/posts?page=496#496
Excessive and unnecessary force in this case? Oh yes, I do completely agree with you there, AMDG&BVMH!
More confirmatation coming out that story is correct. From Facebook “There are a lot of responses over the tragedy that happened last night, and far too many to respond to at this time.
Thank you all for your condolences.
It was a very awful and horrifying thing that happened last night, that resulted in the loss of life of my brother in-law, Logan Brown.
His wife and children are going through one of the hardest things a family can go through, and could use all of the support they can.
I was so heart broken talking to my little niece who misses her dad so terribly and to hear her tell me at such a young age, trying not to cry, (you could still see the tears in her eyes, but she was fighting to stay strong), that she was going to have to go through a LOT of years without her dad.
We are all very heartbroken over what has happened.
Thank you to the emergency responders, officers, EMTs, and fire fighters who went out there last night, and stayed until they were sure the fire was fully out.”
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