Unconfirmed Reports Suggest Militia Leader LaVoy Finicum Killed In Firefight With Police - http://breaking911.com/highways-closed-hospital-on-lockdown-near-scene-of-burns-ore-militia-standoff-after-reports-of-shots-fired/ …
Posted on 01/28/2016 10:11:03 PM PST by Nachum
Oregon protest leader Ammon Bundy and seven others were arrested Tuesday night. Protester LaVoy Finicum was killed in the confrontation with police and the FBI.
Unconfirmed Reports Suggest Militia Leader LaVoy Finicum Killed In Firefight With Police - http://breaking911.com/highways-closed-hospital-on-lockdown-near-scene-of-burns-ore-militia-standoff-after-reports-of-shots-fired/ …
On Wednesday Cliven Bundy, father of Ammon Bundy, told reporters his son told him the FBI murdered militia spokesman LaVoy Finicum with his hands up.
“LaVoy Finicum was murdered. Cold-blooded murder. They shot him with his hands up.â€
(Excerpt) Read more at thegatewaypundit.com ...
“Next court appearance is Feb. 3 and an arraignment set for Feb. 24.”
So they’ve already been formally charged with the Conspiracy to Impede ? I seriously haven’t been following this too closely because I knew it was going to be a train wreck in the end.
Ammon Bundy Crowdfunding Site:[more detail].
Lisa Bundy Full Statement: Recorded statement here.[more detail].
Ammon Bundy Full Statement: "Please stand down." [more detail].
Posted this way earlier.
I’ve examined the video closer and further after the roadblock. My determination is thus.
Truck crashes left of roadblock into 3-4 foot deep snow bank. Lavoy exits with hands raised intending to surrender, takes 5-10 steps away from the roadblock parallel to the road between the truck and treeline. As he gets to what will be the spot where he is murdered an agent or OSP officer comes out of the treeline to the left and fires a taser hitting Lavoy(you can see by the way the agent on the left holds his left arm out fully extended that that is the way tasers are fired, he was clearly not readying a sidearm). Lavoy’s hands drop due to thousands of volts of electricity going through his body and the agent on the right already in firing position with two hands on his sidearm fires killing Lavoy.
The drone or copter starts to circle the truck, some trees obscure the video however not very much. You can now see 3-4 flash bangs go off to the left of the driver side in the snow between truck and treeline. If you watch the passenger side which is closest to the road you can see multiple kick ups of snow from gunfire which are obviously not from inside. As the drone pans further around the windshield becomes visible, some snow is continuing to be kicked up by gunfire and the windshield has clearly been hammered. I can see at least 3, maybe 4 gunshots on the windshield. Possibly one on the roof of the driver side right behind the windshield.
I can see in no frame a weapon being drawn or any weapon whatsoever aimed, drawn, or fired by the occupants of the truck. The FBI and cops planned to ambush and kill whoever came out of that truck. It isn’t until more official vehicles arrive that the assault on the truck ends
Okay, here we go - I want to lay out what we know of the facts before I add my two cents.
1. The footage shows Finicum driving the vehicle past the first checkpoint.
2. He drives at a good clip, sees the 2nd roadblock, brakes and swerves around the roadblock into the snowbank, almost hitting a LEO.
3. He comes out, hands up. Wanders around. Hands drift to his waistband, up again, then back down. He does not appear to “charge”, but there is lateral movement which could seem more pronounced from a different viewing angle.
4. An LEO shoots Finicum when his hands are down. But he is still standing, so the story about him being shot on his knees, hands up, is a lie, so that calls into question each of the people who said he was killed that way.
No audio. No video at eye level. It’s up to the Oregon Police, who took the eye-level video, to release it. I’ve heard that there are legal reasons they can’t release it yet (different laws from Federal), but I can’t confirm that.
However, the video we do have is inconclusive one way or another. There’s a lot we don’t know. So I’m not going to rush to a conclusion until more facts come to light.
I do know this.
I have no idea what Finicum had in his heart, and I do hope, as a Christian, that God has gently brought him to his rest. That being said, I question the state of mind, and conservative motivation, of Finicum. The thing that glaringly bothers me about Finicum is his statement when they removed his foster children, he was upset... because HE WOULD LOSE HIS MAIN SOURCE OF INCOME.
http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/militant-says-foster-children-were-pulled-from-his-home-lavoy-finicum-burns-oregon/
Think about that for a second.
This supposed rancher’s main source of income was the allowance THE GOVERNMENT GAVE HIM for taking care of the kids. Why is that income at all if he uses it to raise the kids? Obviously, he is NOT using it to raise the kids but is using it in other ways. What does that sound like to you?
Anyway, that’s why I question Finicum’s motives. Making a living off the government by taking money that’s supposed to go to foster kids is pretty much the opposite of conservative if you ask me.
Such as killing a gun-running ambassador + three others!!!
See post 363. It is clear what happened.
That's it. That's all they got. Go read the LA Times editorial on it:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0129-white-oregon-militia-charges-20160129-story.html
I don't mind discussing this with you - I just like discussing it with someone who'd up to speed.
When people start flinging incendiary stuff like "armed felonies" out there, it sidetracks the conversation.
In the video I watched, the LEO jumped in front of the truck.
Is there another video out there? :)
See post #363
I imagine the audio is not kind to law enforcement.
There are a ton of assumptions in that analysis, sorry. For example, there’s no clear evidence a taser was used.
It does not bring the curtain down if someone is merely charged. Many are charged and fewer are convicted and those charged but whose charges are dismissed or who are found guilty are, as to the "crime" in question, forever after not guilty in the contemplation of our law or, in popular parlance, "innocent." The shooter guaranteed that Mr. Finicum will be forever innocent because one ore more police or agents killed him rather than charge him. The feds or the state of Oregon won't be prosecuting him now. Death seems a complete defense to any potential charge, at least here on Earth.
Apprehend "SUSPECTS" is one thing. Taser and then shoot to kill is another. We don't have anything like all the evidence but, in any criminal prosecution, the ENTIRE burden is on the government to PROVE guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. They have not and, as to Mr. Finicum, they never will, at least not in criminal court. In civil court, the burden would be much less (preponderance of the evidence, more rather than less likely) and would be on the widow and children but discovery in such a matter may prove to be a litigation killer that, if guilty, the government CANNOT STAND TO ENDURE.
By analogy, back in my distant past when I practiced law before retiring, I represented 1130 people who were initially CHARGED (indeed, overcharged) with felonies no less serious than those claimed against the folks in Oregon. My clients were charged (for what was misdemeanor criminal trespass) with felony "burglary" for flooding into abortion mills early on killing days, entering the killing rooms, breaking eggs into the suction machines, forcing them to be sent to qualified repair personnel off premises which was at worst misdemeanor criminal mischief claimed to be felony "criminal mischief" and they resisted being dragged from the mills which is actually a misdemeanor of resisting arrest but was charged as "Assaulting a Police Officer." No one struck an officer in any way. The "assault" was simply that the arrestee would not walk and had to be dragged. It boiled down to a bunch of often brutal police who were just pissed off that they were having to work up a sweat.
Of 1130 people arrested over the years in Connecticut for these incidents (often 100 or more at a time), NONE were convicted of felonies. Yet, apparently according to your standard of apprehending felons, the cops could have shot and killed them with some imagined justification, including nuns, priests, ministers, old folks, a lawyer or two, students otherwise blameless and holy and some who were disabled. Seven or so were convicted of misdemeanors and sent to a country club jail for ten days at Mansfield which had no guards, no warden, no authorities whatsoever and completely unlocked gates on the one night when I visited them.
1100 had all charges dismissed. Of those, a few were acquitted at trial. Two pled guilty to misdemeanors and paid minimal fines (like $10 or so) to get court paperwork to PROVE to their descendants and families that they had been arrested saving babies. The rest (20-23 or so) were found guilty of infractions which are the equivalent of a parking ticket and refused to pay any fine imposed or cooperate in any way. Anyone sentenced to probation after trial refused to sign the papers or co-operate and dared the courts to jail them for unpaid fines. None were jailed. Many did a week or two in jails immediately after arrest. They generally refused to seek bonds unless for family emergencies and figured that each incident (using Planned Barrenhod's figures) saved about 15-20 babies from abortion altogether and each got the chance to live 70 or 75 years in exchange for the minimal sacrifice of time by those who saved them. In economics, that's a better deal than The Donald ever drove.
Apparently, again, since they were mostly charged but not convicted at the scene of the "felonies" of saving babies, you would feel free to approve the police shooting and even killing with felonies (the boogieman will getcha if ya don't watch out!) suspected. Have I got that right?
I have no idea what you do for a living or have ever done. I certainly did not accuse you of being a federale.
I also support Ted Cruz since Scott Walker dropped out. They can be pissed at both of us and many others.
Very good analysis.. I prefer not to watch the footage of someone getting murdered :/
It is getting nastier by the day... I am scared to see what it will be like come time for Obunghole to leave his post :p
Take care and stay safe.
It’s not an assumption. Watch the video. It’s clearly what happens.
I’ll get back to you when more definitive video/evidence comes to light. I’m sorry, but the lack of audio and eye-level video make for ambiguous interpretations of what happened. Fore example, it’s not obvious at all that a taser was used.
Ping.
The FBI murdered the guy in cold blood. He came out with his hands up. If he had intended anything else he would have come out firing. They advanced and shot before he went for anything.
Nobody is going to do anything. Those agents and whoever issued orders are never going to be punished for this, in 5 years the land will be sold and Russians will be mining uranium from it.
You bet, I tend to agree. In addition, they were firing on the truck before he ever exited the truck. And that would explain why he exited the truck so fast with his hands up.
It's difficult to maintain one's balance in knee deep snow with both hands up above their head. Wonder if any of the agents regret murdering LaVoy Finicum.
All you have to do is watch the agent on the left. Agent tree we will call him.
He has his sidearm in his right hand, taser in left. He tasers Lavoy causing his hands to come down.
If the autopsy results see the light of day there will be wounds consistent with taser nodes. Guaranteed.
You can tell they planned to kill them by how much gunfire they use on the truck after Lavoy is down. There is not one shot that comes from the inside of the truck.
Lavoy Finecum lost his life. Any and all criminally responsible agents or police should be convicted and at least lose their careers and many years of their lives. If guilty and any among them want to avoid some punishment, first one to testify credibly against the rest gets a deal for reduced punishment. The rest get the max. In a sane world, the guilty would meet Old Sparky and ride the lightning to eternity. See Burgers, Bundy.
He wasn’t in deep snow.
I believe he was tased and killed after coming out of the truck with his hands in the air. The agent on the left comes out and you can tell what he is doing. Firing a taser with his left hand, and sidearm in his right hand. The agent on the road is in a semi crouched firing position with two hands on his weapon.
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