Posted on 01/28/2016 6:41:33 PM PST by Ray76
Video of arrest of Bundy, Finicum, et al
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ
No. He puts his hands up immediately. Takes a few steps as 2 agents approach. One from the road, one from the treeline. He looks around as his hands go down and touches his left side. His hands look like he is raising them again then they go back down because he’s been shot.
He was clearly surrendering. IMHO.
Was he holding a weapon?
No. As he came out of the vehicle he raised his hands and forming a Y shape, fully outstretched palms forward fingers splayed, he takes 5-8 steps parallel to the road in deep snow. There is clearly NOTHING in his hands as he exits the car.
It’s what happens after he takes those 5-8 steps that makes the video inconclusive. Two agents approach. One from the treeline, one from the road. This is when he seems to get flustered and looks around like he heard something or was shot or was being yelled at, and his hands jerk to his left side, it looks like he tries to raise them again but he was being put down.
It’s clear that his intention was to surrender.
The FBI messed up by either discharging a shot and he got spooked or lost his balance in the snow. IMHO.
I think they did it to do it. Why they don’t release the audio screams of cover up. There is a camera man 25 feet away. Why not give us the good footage, nope release the drone footage from hundreds of feet away.
Look at the agent coming out of the treeline. His left arm is fully extended and he is holding something, if you watch closely he holsters it as Lavoy is going down and is going for his opposite holster. Now who fires a gun with their arm fully extended? Nobody.
The agent or OSP officer on the left tased him FIRST causing him to lose control of his hands, then the agent from the road shoots him.
Frame by frame you can tell that’s exactly what happened.
He came out arms up intending to surrender. Walks about 5-10 feet before the agent in the trees(watch this guy very closely, pause if you need to) comes out and fires his taser. The agent on the right killed him. Lavoy was down before the agent on the left could holster taser and bring out gun(if you’re watching the left agent you can tell that’s what he’s doing but Lavoy is down already so he stops).
Did slipping in deep snow or getting tasted cause his hands to drop. Was there a weapon at his side.
On closer inspection after Lavoy goes down the truck is slightly obscured by trees. You can see snow being kicked up by gunfire and it also looks like quite a few flashbangs were thrown to left of the driver side of the truck.
On even more inspection it is obvious the agents and police shot the @$&* out of the truck too. As the drone continues to pass while the footage is being obscured watch the windshield, and the right passenger side.
This video seems to completely corroborate the woman’s story. They shot him while he was on the ground being tased. That is painfully obvious to me. It should be to anyone that takes 15 minutes to view from the the crash at roadblock to until the other cops arrive.
I don’t think he slipped in the snow. Where he goes down it looks much shallower than the snowbank the truck is in.
The agent on the left has his arm fully extended with a weapon in it, not like you would hold and fire a sidearm but exactly like you would fire a taser. After Lavoy goes down the left agent lowers whatever weapon was in his left hand going for something on the right side of his belt but doesn’t draw anything.
You cannot tell if Lavoy has a holstered weapon on his side. I believe the agent on the left tased him which caused his arms to drop and then the agent on the right (whom is in firing position with two hands on his weapon) kills him while he is disabled. In fact I’m close to certain that is what happened. If someone bet me that’s what happened, after viewing this video I would not take the bet. That’s for sure.
So his arms were in the air, he gets tasted and his arms react, and that is the excuse for shooting him. Unbelievable.
And no “charging” is possible because he’s in a snowbank.
That isn't the law, and someone from Texas should know that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are distracted at the moment.
It’s hard to know exactly what happened, especially without audio. If they intended on arresting them, there were better ways to go about it, that is for sure.
Authorities chose a stupid way of arresting these people....bad things happened.
Note to self: learn to throw down weapon without touching it. This man was trying to comply with conflicting commands from both in front and behind him. He wasn’t charging them. In that much, we know they lied.
My only “claim” is that there is huge inconsistency in dealing with offenses. We’ve all seen proof of that.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeff_head/albums/72157663502805220
I will add captions to each video later today.
Here's what I say there...and it is my honest appraisal of the event shown on the video:
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These are 42 stills from the FBI video of the apprehension of the Bundy brothers and the individuals with them in Oregon in the very early morning hours of January 27, 2016, when Lavoy Finicum, one of the people with the Bundys, was killed.
The video was released by the FBI two days later and is on YouTube here:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ
It is a hard video to watch. I am aware of, and am sympathetic to the issues that these people raised. There is broad over reach by the Federal Government when it comes to property rights and other issues in the nation, and in the Intermountain West specifically. I was personally very involved in a similar incident at Klamath Falls, OR, in early 2001 that extended through the summer there. In our case we were no armed, but we were face to face with federal lawn enforcement who were.
In this case, the Bundys who with their people had occupied a Wildlife Refuge that was closed for the Winter near Burns Oregon, were invited to a meeting in John Day Oregon, about 70 miles from where they were located. There are reports...that have not been confirmed...that they had been offered safe passage to the meeting. This would not be surprising because they had been allowed to attend other meetings in the area to that point.
A little after 12:25 AM, as the two cars containing them (a Jeep in the back with Ammon Bundy, the group's leader in the back, and a white four door pickup truck driven by Lavoy Finicum and including Ammon's brother in the front) passed a side road, you see several things that put to rest the bizarre notion advanced by the Sheriff and others in Harney County that the Oregon Highway Patrol made a routine traffic stop of the vehicles. At that point we see from the video that either a manned aircraft, or more likely, an unmanned drone (UAV) was in the air already in that remote area. Since when does such an aircraft patrol remote areas of Oregon? In addition, and the two cars pass this side road, ou see nine or ten State and Federal vehicles lined up on the side road waiting for them to pass.
This was not routine. This was an ambush where the Bundys were lured out of the refuge and intended to capture them.
Within a minute and a half both cars are pulled over. This video focuses on the lead car, but we know that after being stopped, the trailing car was approached and the three men in that car, including Ammon Bundy surrendered peacefully.
Before the officers, who can be seen with weapons drawn and surrounding their own vehi8cles behind the lead pickup truck can approach them, Lavoy Finicum drives away. And a pursuit ensues.
It is not what you would call a hot pursuit. It does not appear that any shots were fired. You can clearly see the back window of the topper on the truck and its front windshield before it leaves and they are intact. The following vehicle is several seconds behind them.
Why? Because a mile up the road, as the video shows, law enforcement had established a road block. Three cars wait there, with approximately ten individuals.
As Lavoy approaches, he immediately veers to his left to try and pass. One of the law enforcement personnel gets out of one of the vehicles and positions himself next to the road, I am sure at the edge of the pavement, so that Lavoy would veer further into the snow. He does...which is piled up on the side of the road, and his vehicle comes to a rest, stuck in the snow drift there at 12:34:53.
As Lavoy gets oput, five seconds have passed and the law enforcement vehicle chasing them approaches the road block.
Lavoy has his hands up and is approached by one officer to the right of the picture who has a weapon drawn at 12:34:58. Lavoy appears to reach for his side arm on his hip at 12:25:02. It does not appear that the law officer shoots. Some people believe the law officer had tased Lavoy at that point and that is why he appeared to reach down. We simply cannot tell from the video.
Another officer approaches on the left at 12:35:03 and Lavoy turns toward him and appears to reach down again at 12:35:05 as that officer extends his left arm and hand toward him.
Was Lavoy tased there? We cannot say from this video. Whatever, immediately after reaching down this second time, Lavoy appears to be hit at 12:35:06, and falls to the ground at 12:35:07. He does not move again.
I do not see evidence in the video that he is shot multiple times after being down, rather, the officers lower their weapons and walk around him, keeping their yes on him as the go to their vehicles to continue the apprehension of the other three people in the truck.
For the next several minutes several things occur. You see at least three flash bangs go off. One above and behind the truck at 12:35:37, another right next to the truck at 12:35:32, and a third in the air in front of the truck as 12:35:33.
Looking at the windows, you see what might be one or two bullet holes in the front window at 12:36:27...but it is hard to say. it certainly is not shot out. The same is true for the rear window.
At 12:40:45, the second person (Ammon's brother?) is getting out with his hands raised. Apparently he had been wounded in the arm by gunfire...either directed a Lavoy earlier, or directed at the vehicle at some point.
A picture soon after his exit of the vehicle, at 12:41:13 makes it clear that the topper window on that side is shot out, and the passenger window is either also shot out or rolled down.
At 12:42:55 the next person exits the vehicle and is then secured. By 12:47:00 all three are out and it is then that the officers approach Lavoy's body. 12 minutes after he had been shot.
Once officer kneels down and removes Lavoy’s hat on the video, letting it fall to the snow. He appears to call another officer over who kneels down and takes a look at Lavoy too. I presume at this point they determined that he had died.
There are many who, in the emotion and anger of the moment, are calling this an assassination. As a person who has been on the front line in a similar incident, I honestly cannot say that it appears that way at all.
They Bundy’s vehicles were stopped. Lavoy, for whatever reason, chose to drive away from law enforcement who had stopped him. When reaching the road block a mile or so up the road about a minute, or a little more later, he tried to go around it through the snow.
One officer was put in mortal danger when he attempted to position himself on the pavement next to the road and force Lavoy further off. This all happened in about two seconds. I am sure Lavoy did not see that officer when he veered to the side, and it is clear that he made no attempt to run the man down. Rather, he veered further into the snow...which I believe was the officer's intent, and got stuck.
Lavoy immediately exited the truck. Though most of the time he had his arms raised, he did reach down to his side twice. Was he tased and that caused it. We simply do not know. At that point it was a mortally dangerous situation. In such a tense standoff, where law enforcement believes you are armed and dangerous, anything but getting down and spread eagled is a recipe for disaster.
What most certainly can be argued, and should be argued, is whether any of this takedown was necessary at all.
To that point the Bundys had not endangered anyone. They had not attempted to attack or threaten law enforcement. They had been allowed to come and go to various meetings...and apparently were supposed to be allowed to go to the one in John Day they were headed towards.
If they had been allowed to do so, one man would not be dad...a 56 year-old man, father of eleven, grandfather of numerous more, and a successful rancher from Arizona, and another man would not be wounded.
I hope and pray that the court proceedings focus on that. As with Ruby Ridge ad Waco, irrespective of whatever minor infractions, I believe we will all find again, that it was unnecessary and that lives were lost and people were killed that should have gone on living.
And the protests against the Federal encroachment will continue...and I hope they do, and I hope that more people are made aware of it and get involved...so that these people, including Lavoy, will not have died in vain.
------------------------------------
My heart goes out to LAvoy's family...as do my prayers. May God in Heaven rest his soul, and may He comfort those who grieve.
And may we ensure that this does not end here...that we become involved and get others involved so this Federal overreach is put to rest.
That officer stepped into his path as he was moving off the highway. No way to control that. Finicum avoided hitting the roadblock (whether he's trying to stop while avoiding hitting the roadblock, or attempting to go around it is in question), and the officer he almost hit would have been out of the vehicle's line of travel if he'd stayed put behind the cruiser.
It's not an SUV, it's a pickup with a camper shell on it (watch the line near the back of the cab and where the front of the bed would be, and you can see the original high-mount-brake-light on the back of the cab glowing as the brakes are hit). So, unless there's someone in hiding in the pickup bed under the shell, any outgoing shots will have been out from the cab of the pickup through the camper shell, and out the rear of the camper shell. Unlikely, but not impossible.
I stopped watching after Finicum was shot and he fell. So I don't know if anyone came out the back of the pickup via the shell. But if all occupants were in the cab, then any shot taking out the rear window was likely an incoming shot.
Also, Finicum appears to reach with his right hand to his left hip a couple of times. Was he right-handed or left-handed? Is the left hip where he kept his firearm holstered? If he was a lefty, it makes sense to have the holster there, unless he's a righty using a cross-body draw.
If he's a lefty, and he's reaching with his non-dominant hand to remove his firearm, then it appears he's trying to surrender. If it's a cross-body draw, then I don't know what his actions are. But even as he attempts those reaches, he's still showing hands in the air when between attempts, even once trying to reach with one hand, while the other is in the air, which, again, lends credence to an attempt to surrender.
This video is inconclusive, but doesn't put either party in any better light. If the police did shoot at the first stop, with no apparent action by the vehicle occupants, other than showing hands out the window, then the fleeing is justified. I would run, too, if I were attempting to surrender or talk, and someone just opened fire on me and my vehicle full of people.
Good info.
Cops in Oregon had less rules of engagement than Marines fighting moslum terrorists.
When only cops have guns you are subjects not citizens.
I remember those brave cops that sat out side a school in Colorado while kids begged and screamed for help as they died. when the police finally approached the school the walk in behind a fire truck with a brave fireman totally exposed to gunfire, behind those huge windows, while the brave police hid behind his truck. Yeah I don't have any use for police playing war games setting up traps with snipers in place.
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