Posted on 01/21/2016 8:56:06 AM PST by dangus
Over the past few years, I've argued that Russia was in much better shape than most people realized. While urgently avoiding praising Putin, I defended his Russia from several attacks. The thrust of my comments was simply that Russia was much more complicated than the "simply evil" narrative that was being woven by perhaps the most diverse coalition ever assembled:
Has-been cold-warriors "neocons" eager to have a simple enemy;
Protestants angry that Russia doesn't make it very easy to proselytize by negativity;
liberals who detest Russia's anti-homosexual and anti-abortion movement;
one-world-religion types, who opposed Russia's strong opposition to Islamic terrorism;
Catholic leaders (who I respect) who want their pre-Soviet churches back;
European media outlets which have been compromised by Russian oligarchs who stole hundreds of billions from the Russian common-folk.
My purpose was not to be an apologist, but to provide some balance to the negativity by such a broad array of opinion-makers.
Therefore, I feel obliged to present an under-reported, very troubling news story from the other side of the ledger: the apparent assassination of Alexander Litvienkov by the FSB, the successors to the KGB.
Litvienkov was a conspiracy peddler of the lowest type, turned Islamicist. But free societies cannot tolerate the murder of even the slimiest creatures. And while the British court's finding yesterdat that Putin "probably" personally approved Litvienkov's murder is laughable by American standards of jurisprudence, and comes surrounded by silly levels of bias, there is little evidence that Putin did anything in response to his murder other than breathe a sigh of relief that a pest had been gotten rid of. The FSB works for him, and even the agents who killed Litvienkov had gone rogue, it was Putin's responsible to bring them to justice.
I personally have doubted that Putin was behind the waves of murders of journalists in the first part of last decade; the most troubling cases were largely of journalists taking the side of Chechnyan terrorists, which certainly could have inspired mere vigilantes, militiamen and even simply victims of the terrorism to want them dead.
But the inaction of Putin to adequately respond to Litvienkov's murder has to be interpreted in that context. Failure to even attempt to bring Litvienkov's killers to justice was a signal to such vigilantes and militiamen that they might be doing Putin a favor.
Again, I never intended to be a Putin apologist, so don't read me as "disillusioned." I certainly never intended to dismiss the dark side of the ledger vis-a-vis Russia, only to help strike a balance. And I think it's foolish that there is such a broad coalition dedicated to keeping Russia an "enemy." But it is disturbing to me to see the dark side exposed.
Christian nations follow what Christ said and feed the poor, world giving index, Russia is way down there. #129. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index
Good luck calling Russia a Christian nation.
Life expectancy is 58 years old for a Russian man, but the nearby Muslims have 69 years old as in Dagestan.
Some negative things of other nations have been said by the Kleptocrats in defense of the gangster regime.
Russia’s going Islamic, its military already has seen a lot of it going Muslim.
Russia, hands off Christian nations.
“Basically the shady and dishonest British said Putin had a motive.”
No, there is very solid evidence of Russian involvement, and zero evidence that anyone else was involved. There is just no “smoking gun” we can point to in order to say WHO in the Russian government ordered it. That’s why the case was decided based only on the VERY STRONG circumstantial evidence alone.
“And the day he fell ill, he met with a couple of current kgb/fsb agents. Afterwards he met an Italian shady guy connected to everything evil who is also ...a nuclear expert... found to have been exposed to the Polonium and who also had ties to Columbia.”
Misleading information. Of course the Italian was exposed to the polonium, because EVERYONE that Litvinienko met with after he was poisoned was exposed to it, because Litvinienko, at that point, was radiologically HOT and irradiating everything and everyone he came into contact with.
However, there were only 2 people, in all of London, who were exposed to the polonium BEFORE Litvinienko was poisoned, and those were the 2 KGB agents. They could be tracked by their radiation trails, from Europe into London, and then again, as they fled London, proving they were the only ones in possession of the MURDER WEAPON prior to the poisoning.
“There are about 20 plausible explanations for this guy getting dead, of which the Russian government is only one.”
No, there is only 1 plausible explanation, and anyone telling you different is either a liar or an idiot.
This is not intended to derail the thread:
You said, “I hate that I only see typos after I post.”
Same here. However, it is about impossible to proof read your own writing just after you wrote it. The reason is that you see what you MEANT to type as opposed to what you actually typed.
The solution: Type the post, take up some other task, then go back and proof read it. Even that does not always work, but it helps.
Incidentally, this is the same reason you see typos just after you post: the act of posting is a different task.
This is also why comments are rife with typos. Who types a comment, walks away for a bi, and then posts it later?
This is one of the very few FR opening comments that I will print out to save, and I’ll fix the typos ya mention.
In power, Putin has pursued three primary objectives: (1) rebuild Russian state power by reacquiring ownership or control of the commanding heights of the Russian economy, especially oil and gas; (2) exert Russian national power, especially in the near abroad and in the immediate region; and (3), steal for himself and his circle of cronies, often with the help of the Russian Mafia and allied Russian business interests.
The murder of Litvinenko was carried out by the use of radioactive Polonium, a substance of great expense and exquisite rarity and requiring care and sophistication in use. Since the only ready source of the amount of Polonium required is a Russian government reactor in Moscow, Putin would have been deeply involved. There is simply no one other than Putin who could have approved the operation.
Granted, you are correct that Russia is continuing to function despite its isolation from the West, but its scientific, industrial, and technical bases are decaying, and its demographic profile marks it for decline. Putin's command of Russian politics means that he will remain in power for at least another decade or two and leave no sound basis for succession or for the reforms essential to Russia's future.
The Muslim population in Russia is in steep decline. The portion identifying as Christian is among the highest in Europe. Ukraine is aborting and birth-controlling themselves to extinction and has joined post-Christian Europe: 63% are no longer Christian, vs. less than 30% in Russia (according to self-identification; I’m not getting into who’s a “good Christian”).
Care to cite a source for that? Considering the high proportion of Muslims in Russia and the rate at which they reproduce, reports of a “steep decline” seem pretty dubious. As for your “statistics” comparing Ukraine to Russia, sounds like something that would come of Russian Nazi Alexander Dubin’s work.
>> Misleading information. Of course the Italian was exposed to the polonium, because EVERYONE that Litvinienko met with after he was poisoned was exposed to it, because Litvinienko, at that point, was radiologically HOT and irradiating everything and everyone he came into contact with. <<
This explanation is nonsense. Being radiologically hot is not like having a virus. The notion that the mafia guy became detectably hot just from being in the room with Litvienko is absurd.
>> As for your “statistics†comparing Ukraine to Russia, sounds like something that would come of Russian Nazi Alexander Dubin’s work. <<
The source, is Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies via Wikipedia.
>> Considering the high proportion of Muslims in Russia and the rate at which they reproduce, reports of a “steep decline†seem pretty dubious. <<
Muslim reproductive rates are largely a myth. Fertility rates have fallen more sharply than anywhere in the world in Muslim places like Iran and Algeria. In Russia, they are still considerably higher than the average birthrate, due in large part to being from impoverished and rural areas, which tend to have higher birth rates. But they are abandoning their religion at very rapid rates.
Even in the United States, Muslims claim 10 million believers based on ethnicity, but a Pew research study found less than one percent of Muslims claim to be Muslim (less than three million). And of those, only 36% said they look to religion for moral guidance. That’s less than a million active Muslims... despite the fact that a million nominal Muslims entered the US in just the last eight years.
It’s even harder keeping women Islamic (Gee, I wonder why). The Pew study found that 65% of US Muslims were male, and 59% of those who were adults were unmarried.
Oh, but I forgot the source for Muslim population falling.
European Social Surveys in 2007 and 2009 found 8% of Russians were Muslim. The Russian Census in 2013 found this number had dropped to 6.5%. Further, most (4.7%, a majority of the 6.5%) told the census that they were “unaffiliated,” as opposed to only one in ten Christians being unaffiliated. The Census skipped the heavily Muslim Chechnya, but that’s only 1% of the Russian population.
These polls conflict with other estimates based on demographics which suggested that Muslims should be 14% or more of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Russia
Most of what you write suggests you believe various conspiracy theories. But this is simply false:
“ its demographic profile marks it for decline. “
Russia’s birth rate is now much higher than much of Europe... and heading in the right direction (unlike Europe.)
The Ukrainian Centre for Economic and Political Studies has some interesting information. I found a link to their website from the Wikipedia listing. The only poll I could find regarding attitudes toward religion in Ukraine related to the question “Do you trust the church?” 64.5% answered that they fully trust or rather trust the church. 24.9% answered that they mistrust the church.
I could not find the statistics you describe that supposedly prove that Russia is a land of supremely devout churchgoers.
Polonium 209 - Capitol Steps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q-765B1I7Q&list=PL045424154244698F&index=11
Anyone who likes political comedy should listen to this, and perhaps to the other Capital Steps songs at the link - it’s fun.
“Being radiologically hot is not like having a virus. The notion that the mafia guy became detectably hot just from being in the room with Litvienko is absurd.”
No it is definitely not absurd. Investigators were able to tell that Litvinienko had used a fax machine, days later, because the fax machine had been irradiated from contact with him. The guy had taken such a huge dose of radioactive material that he was bombarding everything he came into contact with, allowing investigators to definitively trace his exact steps and everyone he came into contact with.
“Russia’s birth rate is now much higher than much of Europe... and heading in the right direction (unlike Europe.)”
http://freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3383858/posts?page=15#15
Yes, but are those births of ethnic Russians or others?
The birth rate for non-ethnic Russians is marginally higher than for Russians, but the birth rate for ethnic Russians is still way higher than Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, Ukranians, Poles, Germans, etc.
>> I could not find the statistics you describe that supposedly prove that Russia is a land of supremely devout churchgoers. <<
I never said that. In fact, I was quite careful not to overstate the case, by pointing out it was by self-identification and in no way means they are “good Christians.” But the salient take-away is that at least the majority of Russians identify as Christians, whereas the vast majority of Ukrainians do not.
Here’s a link to the Ukrainian poll. Chrome should translate it for you, if need be:
http://razumkov.org.ua/ukr/poll.php?poll_id=300
The key Russian demographic is that the poor public health and high alcohol consumption impose a high mortality rate on adult, working age males. Immigration from Ukraine has helped to make up Russia’s population deficit, but this seems to have been sharply reduced due to the recent conflict.
Good news. The life expectancy of Russians has improved about eight years over the last fifteen years.
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