If you would like more information about what's happening in Oregon, please FReepmail me.
I lost my Oregon list when my computer crashed last year, so please send me your name by FReepmail if you want to be on this list.
Posted on 01/03/2016 9:31:09 AM PST by Lazamataz
In the last day or so, a very dangerous situation has emerged in Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, near the town of Burns, Oregon. Ammon Bundy and about a dozen men, armed with firearms, have occupied a closed Federal building on that property. The local Sheriff has backed down, and there are rumors of Special Response Teams staging nearby.
This building is a smallish, very isolated building in the middle of a large National Refuge. Someone posted on a thread under a Guardian news article about this, "I'm in Oregon. These guys took over a headquarters building but it's kinda like an old brick house your grandma would live in and it's at least 50 miles from nowhere. You guys have a good time."
I do not intend to explore the minutia behind the case. That is a matter for courts. I do intend to explore the responses to this that we should take, and those we should not take.
I had a chance to hear a CNN interview with Ammon Bundy. At best, his narrative can only be described as incoherent. The CNN host, remarkably constrained in his questioning, asked what the government could do to unravel this. After a lot of "um's" and "uh's", the best Ammon could come up with was, "The government needs to start following the Constitution." The host wanted a more definitive answer, and Bundy had nothing. Simply put, this guy is the perfect foil for a police-state government move.
We all agree. The Federal government does need to start following the Constitution. This is a fight for the court system, and if there is no relief there -- AND it happens to more than a handful of us -- THEN other more drastic measures can be considered. The key is the universality of violation. The cases of Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Bundy Ranch -- while all eregious -- are spread apart by years and have happened to the tiniest percentage of people. The proper response to these actions are judicial in nature. Take these things all the way up to the Supreme Court. These venues NEED to be fully-explored, first.
If, however, this sort of government abuse begins to happen in greater and greater numbers, there comes a time when there is a tipping point. When OTrauma just starts going full-Stalin, we must react, or die on our knees.
I don't think we are there yet, notice how delicately he's treading on his gun control Executive Order tomorrow. It's basically a tiny measure -- purported to be background checks if the seller sells 25 guns a year -- and he had his people research it for months before deciding to proceed.
There comes a time he won't be so careful or delicate. That's when we know the balloon went up. Either that, or if we ever awake to find that the electric or communications grid is down. Those are proper signs that something srastic must be undertaken.
If the Feds undertake an attacking action, and lose anyone, this will be the chance for OTrauma to actually impose some Stalinist directives. Anything from a declaration of a National Emergency to martial law could be reasonably taken, and the masses of people would go right along with it. See, the masses of people need to feel the boot before they will join. There must be more support by the general population before we can move. There are also several ways to conduct ourselves. One is more direct action, but another seems to be effective as well. Look at Czechoslovakia for how a successful 'velvet revolution' can occur, or how the 'Arab Spring' caused (admittedly harmful, in this instance) change. Anything where we are the vast minority, and a Fed-supportive populace is the vast majority, is simply a death sentence for more of our liberties, and perhaps even a death sentence for we who believe in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
This particular set of actions by Ammon Bundy are just unwise. One actually wonders if he wasn't emboldened or encouraged to act recklessly by agents of the administration, embedded in his group.
I call upon Ammon Bundy to stand down, and work the court system -- all the way up to SCOTUS -- at this time. I plead for all patriotic-minded individuals to stay away from this situation.
After the Hammonds surrender tomorrow, the show is over.
Bundys brought national attention to what these animals in DC are up to, they should be commended for that,for bringing attention to the Gestapo tactics of the Executive Branch under the control of the marxists.
Hammonds will be released once the DOJ is back under American control in January 2017.
There is no positive outcome to continuing this standoff after tomorrow, as there is nothing that can realistically be accomplished.
The marxists and their flying monkeys would be wise to back off and let the militia leave in peace.
Brilliant comment. I am stealing it and posting it on Facebook.
Without having yet read the decision, the one thing that stands out is that defining the Hammonds as terrorists is nothing short of pure obscenity.
No they weren't. They were convicted of violating 18 U.S.C. § 844(f)(1): "Whoever maliciously damages or destroys, or attempts to damage or destroy, by means of fire or an explosive, any building, vehicle, or other personal or real property in whole or in part owned or possessed by, or leased to, the United States, or any department or agency thereof, or any institution or organization receiving Federal financial assistance, shall be imprisoned for not less than 5 years and not more than 20 years, fined under this title, or both."
“Setting fires on land that does not belong to you, especially during a drought, seems like a bad idea in principle”
You are opposite of good land management. The ranchers who owned the land way before they rented from the feds after it was stolen from them were creating fire breaks and also getting rid of areas with noxious weeds. The BLM themselves were doing the same thing at the same time.
More to the point is they were convicted of “arson” and sentenced to prison, which they served dutifully and with good behavior. They were then released and a Federal judge claims that the act was one of terror and the minimum sentence was five years...so they are arresting them again and making them go BACK to prison after they had already served the time they were given.
If any of you Yoho’s think this is nothing to speak out against...shame on you cowards. Maybe the same will happen to you when the Feds decide arbitrarily to arrest you for things you have posted here.
If you would like more information about what's happening in Oregon, please FReepmail me.
I lost my Oregon list when my computer crashed last year, so please send me your name by FReepmail if you want to be on this list.
I know. I saw your follow-ups. But I had to hassle you anyway.
Unfortunately they did not know what to do next.
They disbanded the Iraqi Army...big mistake.
They tried to impose a strong Central Government that neutered the local leaders. Big Mistake.
They imprisoned Bagdadhi types who used the prison to recruit and train ISIS. Then they released these trained terrorists.
If you are going to fight, fight to win. And if you fight to win, then have a winning strategy with many moves in the game and plan Bs and plan Cs.
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Recalls to mind Patton’s belief in using the German Wehrmacht to push The Soviet union back into its boundaries. Bad mistake to chop up Germany into little pieces and VERY bad mistake to let Russia take Berlin. We paid the price of not having listened to Patton throughout the Cold War.
WWII was the last War We Won because it was the last war our politicians fought to win. Our troops did their job, but the Washington elite gave their victories away. I have hated Washington since Vietnam.
Expect Janet Reno’s WACO attack all over again, especially with the coming gun-grabbing in mind!!!
“Not true. As I pointed out on one of the other threads (but didn’t link to you, so you may not have seen it), this isn’t a Sentencing Guidelines issues. It’s a statutory minimums issue. The original judge didn’t like the Statutory Minimum set by Congress for the offense for which the defendants were convicted, so he sentenced them to less. DOJ appealed, and prevailed at the 9th Circuit. The trial court then had to sentence them as mandated by Congress. “
The victims did the sentence they were served...for a trumped up charge. Now, after the fact a federal judge comes in and decides burning a firebreak to protect a dry land from fire is terrorism...that is justice to you? Screw you and your government.
maliciously
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So a backfire is considered a “malicious” action?????????????????????????????????????????????????
hmmmmmmmmmmm.............
I don't think the government defined them as terrorists. The law they are convicted of is not specifically terrorism-related and has been on the books for decades.
If the Bundys want to start a rebellion I'd like to be sure it's for a cause worth rebelling over.
“”The only way the (very few in number) ranchers could stop the wildfire was with a backfire. They used it — and it worked. “”
You don’t set a back fire behind firefighter while they’re in front of the fire. They’re lucky nobody got trapped in between.
Since Travis[Matt] believed that it is not the time to act I am for waiting. I always follow the lead of someone with the wisdom of Travis or Squantos.
The government was already fighting fires in the area that had been ignited by lightning. There was a no-burn order in effect due to dry conditions. The Hammonds started the fire anyway and it spread out of their control. So yes, I think their actions could well be termed "malicious".
And the fastest death sentence carried out in forever !
Tweet size tag line ping,,,
I can do this.
Until I met up with one, decades ago, who was carrying a firearm only to be used hunting where he had no permission. I wasn't alone, he unloaded his arm upon request and we told him to beat it, and leave the rifled slugs where they were.
He was trespassing and hunting on posted land under color of law. We let him walk.
Try that now, and you are a "terrorist".
It is interesting they were denied cert. Considering there is an element of double jeopardy involved.
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