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Back to the thread.
"This is a fight for the court system"
It's already been litigated all the way to SCOTUS. Cert was denied.
From # 30 .
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Posted on 01/03/2016 9:31:09 AM PST by Lazamataz
In the last day or so, a very dangerous situation has emerged in Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, near the town of Burns, Oregon. Ammon Bundy and about a dozen men, armed with firearms, have occupied a closed Federal building on that property. The local Sheriff has backed down, and there are rumors of Special Response Teams staging nearby.
This building is a smallish, very isolated building in the middle of a large National Refuge. Someone posted on a thread under a Guardian news article about this, "I'm in Oregon. These guys took over a headquarters building but it's kinda like an old brick house your grandma would live in and it's at least 50 miles from nowhere. You guys have a good time."
I do not intend to explore the minutia behind the case. That is a matter for courts. I do intend to explore the responses to this that we should take, and those we should not take.
I had a chance to hear a CNN interview with Ammon Bundy. At best, his narrative can only be described as incoherent. The CNN host, remarkably constrained in his questioning, asked what the government could do to unravel this. After a lot of "um's" and "uh's", the best Ammon could come up with was, "The government needs to start following the Constitution." The host wanted a more definitive answer, and Bundy had nothing. Simply put, this guy is the perfect foil for a police-state government move.
We all agree. The Federal government does need to start following the Constitution. This is a fight for the court system, and if there is no relief there -- AND it happens to more than a handful of us -- THEN other more drastic measures can be considered. The key is the universality of violation. The cases of Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Bundy Ranch -- while all eregious -- are spread apart by years and have happened to the tiniest percentage of people. The proper response to these actions are judicial in nature. Take these things all the way up to the Supreme Court. These venues NEED to be fully-explored, first.
If, however, this sort of government abuse begins to happen in greater and greater numbers, there comes a time when there is a tipping point. When OTrauma just starts going full-Stalin, we must react, or die on our knees.
I don't think we are there yet, notice how delicately he's treading on his gun control Executive Order tomorrow. It's basically a tiny measure -- purported to be background checks if the seller sells 25 guns a year -- and he had his people research it for months before deciding to proceed.
There comes a time he won't be so careful or delicate. That's when we know the balloon went up. Either that, or if we ever awake to find that the electric or communications grid is down. Those are proper signs that something srastic must be undertaken.
If the Feds undertake an attacking action, and lose anyone, this will be the chance for OTrauma to actually impose some Stalinist directives. Anything from a declaration of a National Emergency to martial law could be reasonably taken, and the masses of people would go right along with it. See, the masses of people need to feel the boot before they will join. There must be more support by the general population before we can move. There are also several ways to conduct ourselves. One is more direct action, but another seems to be effective as well. Look at Czechoslovakia for how a successful 'velvet revolution' can occur, or how the 'Arab Spring' caused (admittedly harmful, in this instance) change. Anything where we are the vast minority, and a Fed-supportive populace is the vast majority, is simply a death sentence for more of our liberties, and perhaps even a death sentence for we who believe in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
This particular set of actions by Ammon Bundy are just unwise. One actually wonders if he wasn't emboldened or encouraged to act recklessly by agents of the administration, embedded in his group.
I call upon Ammon Bundy to stand down, and work the court system -- all the way up to SCOTUS -- at this time. I plead for all patriotic-minded individuals to stay away from this situation.
And even then...Cliven Bundy had/has the chance to take that case to court and, at this time, I havent seen any evidence he intends to. A whole line of lawyers lined up to do it Pro Bono and yet all he does is cry and whine.
That, and after I went up to Bunkerville to support, I got into it with one of them on the Kyle issue-you know? The American Sniper? They called Kyle a liar and a war monger, blood thirsty etc.
I told these GD Mormons I would never support any issue they bring. Yet, when I ask any of these MORMONS why they wont demand the church to kick out Harry Ried et al, all I get from them is...crickets.
I believe they HAVE the moral highground, and the community is building
You can't ... now ... suggest the courts to 'work this out' ... they started it
Barry has been to Hawaii, then trouble breaks out.....
Same as every year, no recording devices on a golf course.
Keep up the good work, my friend.
Spread the word, and save the country.
Your editorials are getting better and better,
both in depth and in presentation.
This whole fiasco has me really worried.
What does #BlackLivesMatter have to do with the Forest Service?
It is, isn’t it.
L
These people are ranchers not press secretaries with huge taxpayer funded staffs assembling every word for a media interview. Again you are falling for the appearance of "unreasonableness" of what are simply normal Americans on TV.
keep talkin’ ... we’re listenin’
BLM = Bureau of Land Management
Revised Patriots’ Expressions of Defiance
Darn the torpedoes, let’s go home.
I regret that I have but one life to give for my country, so I ratted everybody I know.
If there is to be war, let it start tomorrow, Or next week. And somewhere else.
1. Do you SOBs want to live forever?
2. Well, yes. We would.
Remember the Alamo! And the Maine! Bullets smart. Let’s move on!
1. “Where are you going William? To pick a fight?”
2. “No, to apologize to the English for putting them out and deliver my wife and daughters to them.”
And finally,
Greater self-love hath no man than this, that a man determine that standing up for himself and his FRiends would not be prudent.
This is what I think about Oregon today.
Some might believe that the Oregon Standoff is our Concord Bridge.
Some might believe that it is our Fort Sumter moment.
But I think that the Oregon Standoff is a buffalo jump. The feds and their agents-provocateurs embedded among the Oregon “militia” patsies are waving blankets and smoky torches around the buffalo herd. Foolish people are running at a gallop right toward a cliff.
After what happened with the motorcycle clubs in Waco, I’m guessing that the feds are feeling like they have this show down pat, and Oregon will be a far bigger success than Waco 2. And then there is that other Waco event, the one that ended in a fire.
Look, if CW2 is going to start, it’s going to start. But it should not be started at a freaking buffalo jump, engineered by the same evil bastards who engineered Fast and Furious, Waco 2, etc.
Don’t fight on somebody else’s time table, according to their plan, on their terrain. Don’t walk into their ambush. Don’t be a patsy. Don’t play by their script, This is their script, their play, their ambush. Don’t be a tool. Use your head. Don’t be stampeded over a cliff.
It isn't like they released millions of gallons of mine waste into the local river. How many of those people will be thrown in prison.
Agree w/ you on this topic. This is not the hill to stand on. These Bundy boys are not supported by the community nor the Hammonds.
This is what I think about Oregon today.
Some might believe that the Oregon Standoff is our Concord Bridge.
Some might believe that it is our Fort Sumter moment.
But I think that the Oregon Standoff is a buffalo jump. The feds and their agents-provocateurs embedded among the Oregon “militia” patsies are waving blankets and smoky torches around the buffalo herd. Foolish people are running at a gallop right toward a cliff.
After what happened with the motorcycle clubs in Waco, I’m guessing that the feds are feeling like they have this show down pat, and Oregon will be a far bigger success than Waco. And then there is that other Waco, the one that ended in a fire.
Look, if CW2 is going to start, it’s going to start. But it should not be started at a freaking buffalo jump, engineered by the same evil bastards who engineered Fast and Furious, Waco 2, etc. Don’t fight on somebody else’s time table, according to their plan, on their terrain. Don’t walk into their ambush. Don’t be a patsy. Don’t play by their script, This is their script, their play, their ambush. Don’t be a tool. Use your head.
on a charge they’ve already been found guilty, served the sentence and now the court says, ‘no ...y’gott’a go back and do more tme’ ..... that’s how YOU want to be treated when you’ve served YOUR sentence ???
LOL
Obama is throwing down tar babies all around the landscape. All he needs are a few triggers to shore up his EOs.
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Back to the thread.
"This is a fight for the court system"
It's already been litigated all the way to SCOTUS. Cert was denied.
From # 30 .
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The long game, November:
No electricity, no elections.
“The worse, the better” (for Obama).
The Patriots are barely handling the Dolphins today. Not sure they can take on the Feds without a bye week.
(Just trying to add a little levity to the conversation.)
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