Posted on 01/03/2016 1:54:57 AM PST by Nachum
A group of militiamen on Saturday occupied the headquarters of a national wildlife refuge in Oregon in support of two brothers who are slated to report to prison on Monday on arson charges - and the protesters don't plan on leaving any time soon, saying it's 'kill or be killed' time.
Militia members claimed to have as many as 150 supporters with them at the Malheur National Wildlife refuge building in Princeton, which is federal property managed by the US Fish and Wildlife Service that was closed for the holiday weekend.
They later rescinded the number and said they would not disclose how many people were in the building, because of 'operational security'. Local reporters have said that there only appears to be a dozen cars outside of the building.
'We're planning on staying here for years, absolutely,' Ammon Bundy, one of the occupiers, told the Oregonian via telephone. ‘This is not a decision we've made at the last minute.'
Ammon Bundy and his brother Ryan, who is another occupier, are the sons of of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a 2014 standoff with the government over grazing rights.
The occupation came shortly after 300 marchers paraded through Burns, Oregon, about 50 miles away, to protest at the prosecution of father and son Harney County ranchers Dwight Hammond Jr and Steven Hammond, who were ordered returned to prison by a federal court which ruled their original sentences were insufficient.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
So now I’m really really confused. The situation is hopeless, but we must wait for elections that may or may not happen.
However, we must not accept the federal spark.
I feel at this point that we are arguing how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. No matter the underlying facts, the evil motives and bad actions of OTrauma will soon be upon us.
I think we are all a little bit confused. I may need a day or so to sort this all out.
They need to stop this nonsense and leave federal property IMMEDIATELY!
This one thing could set back years of progress against the left just as the bombing of the murrow federal building did after Waco and Ruby Ridge.
There was invasive plants encroaching on the land - this tells us a couple of things: carrying capacity is reduced, the BLM did not do their job in maintaining the range.
Research the BLM enabling legislation, maintaining the range is what they are supposed to do.
Glad you’re at least open to my confusion.
Most others are OBEY FEDZILLA OR ELSE! BUT WE MUST BE FREE!
No real criminal has had it done. If that were the case my son’s killer would still be in prison, not walking the streets of Tennessee a free man after 12.5 years and 6 parole hearings. I made the POS serve every day until he maxed out his good behavior time.
I’m his #1 target, I CCW.And I can hit what I aim at.
Me, I prefer Hoppe's, but whatever floats their boats I guess...
the BLM keeps changing the rules - do you bother to read what I write before you rush in to defend your precious BLM?
Exactly what is your connection to the BLM?
If you are a rancher, you know that most of the cattlemen in that area don’t really have the option of dropping their permits - they are not leases, they are grazing permits. Without those permits, they would be out of business.
My son’s killer was tried in Shelby CO...Memphis, TN, he was housed in Johnson City, which is the furthest east state prison in the State. And when parole hearings came up we had to drive there at OUR expense. Almost a 19 hr drive one way. Which mean lay overs coming and going at our expense.
Only crime victims know these facts. And I suspect Tennessee isn’t the only State that makes the victims pay for their transportation with no form of reimbursement.
We did get a law passed that Video, audio testimony could be used for those not capable of such travel. But it is best to show up in person.
Visitors to the prisoners should have to pay for their own travel, but the Victim fighting a parole hearing should be reimbursed for the travel. And we should be excused the portion of taxes that are paid for the criminal’s upkeep. It’s rubbing salt into the wound.
They are criminals. Period.
Calling yourself a Patriot doesn’t make you one.
“”There was invasive plants encroaching on the land - this tells us a couple of things: carrying capacity is reduced, the BLM did not do their job in maintaining the range.””
And this is a problem with cattle especially when you bring in an outside feed source. Those seeds go right through and get deposited all over the place and have a nice nutrient environment to start out with. Most likely the cattle and the rancher are responsible for the invasive plants. Mesquites traveled at an amazing pace across Texas due to cattle.
If I ran cattle on your land, and you agreed to maintain the perimeter fences - then you’d better do it.
BLM’s enabling legislation states that they are to manage the land for improved grazing, or words to that effect. If a noxious plant was invading that range, then it seems clear that they were not managing the range.
BLM issues conflicting directives, quite often - “we won’t allow you to get rid of the invasive plants. You will be fined for not properly managing the grazing land, and allowing invasive species to grow.” They are also infamous for cutting AUMs for invalid reasons and their representatives tend to be overly arrogant and dismissive with very little practical knowledge of range management. And they will say things like, “if you don’t like it, you can get your cattle off.” Which is a good formula for creating these kinds of situations.
If I leased from you, and you agreed to maintain and manage the graze and forage, then you’d better do what you agreed to do.
The permit fees are designated as “management fees” and the BLM is mandated by Congress to maintain and improve the grazing land.
yadayadayada - this land is designated for grazing - you know, cattle, sheep - those kinds of animals that eat and poop seeds. Deer do this also.
Proper range management is dealing with that, BLM’s job is range management, of which they rarely do a good job.
You asked me if I was merely speculating about reduced AUMs. I explained why it was a reasonable assumption - the carrying capacity is reduced by proliferation of noxious plants. the rancher is not getting full use of his permit, nor is he getting what he paid for.
Didn’t Mike V. meet Ryan Payne at the Bundy Ranch standoff and warn about him? I seem to recall that Mike V. said at the time that Payne should not be allowed any where near the Threeper movement.
Or am I thinking of someone else?
You won’t get an argument from me. My deepest sympathy for the loss of your son, and for the ongoing hardship you bear.
If your analysis is correct, it’s too late to reverse course. The situation is already unfolding and unless they just leave peacefully, the situation will be used against everyone.
To be honest I’m not paying that much attention to what you write other than for it’s amusement since you provide nothing more than opinion. I might add that opinion is on a subject it’s obvious you have no understanding of. Here’s the plain and simple truth not all land can provide enough to maintain a serious cattle operation. When that happens you simply reduce the amount of cattle that it can provide for. Many times the land can not provide enough to even pay for itself so you have 2 choices, look for secondary income or get out of the cattle business. As far as the BLM goes I have zero connection, we have zero BLM land in our area and very little in the state. I’m just an old West Texas rancher, Vietnam Veteran, ex LEO, who managed to get himself into the oil and gas business along the way. Please allow me to repeat this one more time. Never get into a lease or contract with the Federal Government, they are not to be trusted.
well stated Travis - plays right into 0bama’s hands. Timing of this a coincidence? I think not.
It’s probably past that point barring a miracle.
This situation could drastically affect the whole country.
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