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The Gun Debate, Continued
Townhall.com ^ | December 8, 2015 | Debra J. Saunders

Posted on 12/08/2015 10:29:50 AM PST by Kaslin

There is something I forgot to mention in my Sunday column about California's gun laws and their failure to stop the San Bernardino terrorist attack last week: I supported California's 1989 assault weapon ban. The bill passed after a vicious elementary schoolyard shooting in Stockton left five children dead. The shooter had an AK-47. Sacramento passed an assault weapon ban that I believed would save lives because it would limit the speed with which a deranged thug could kill.

Fact is, I knew next to nothing about guns. I wrongly equated semi-automatic weapons with automatic weapons. I wrongly thought the guns banned in the 1989 law were faster than other semi-automatic long guns. I felt virtuous because at least I was supporting something.

In 1994, Washington adopted a national assault weapon ban. As the law was about to sunset in 2004, a Department of Justice evaluation determined that if the ban were renewed, then its effects on gun violence would be "small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement." That's in part because the banned firearms were used in about 2 percent of crimes before the law was enacted, according to most studies.

In his Sunday night speech on the San Bernardino attack, President Barack Obama told America that to fight terrorism, Washington has to make it "harder for people to buy powerful assault weapons like the ones that were used in San Bernardino." Methinks he wants some partisan cage-rattling to distract from the frightening prospect of terror in the homeland.On Saturday, a New York Times front-page editorial opined likewise. The editorial noted that European bans have not stopped terrorist attacks, "but at least those countries are trying."

That's the spirit of the assault weapon ban community; it is a good thing to enact laws that don't work, because it shows you really care. Pat yourself on the back quickly because you've just chased other Americans -- people who fear that this is an early step in a march against their Second Amendment rights -- to their local gun dealer to buy what they think you want to ban.

For the record, I don't think it's a good thing if more people own guns. Irresponsible owners leave loaded weapons where children can find them. Also, more than 20,000 Americans kill themselves with guns annually.

But this is important: There has been "a remarkable decrease in violent crime and gun crime in the U.S. since the early 1990s, even though the number of firearms has increased by about 10 million every year," Center for Research in Crime and Justice Director James Jacobs told Time magazine. "There's no simple correspondence between the number of firearms in private hands and the amount of gun crime, and I often find it somewhat strange that there seems to be a perception that things are worse than ever when, in reality, things are really better than they've been for decades."

So what's my plan? A few readers have asked me. To start, I don't believe in enacting laws that do not work. I know what did work -- the heroic San Bernardino Police Department. Officers arrived at the scene in four minutes. A surveillance team found the terrorists' rented van; the shootout that followed very likely prevented another deadly attack. The officers' training saved lives. The key is to know your enemy. The enemy is Islamic extremism, not American gun owners.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist
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1 posted on 12/08/2015 10:29:50 AM PST by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

President sure wanted San Bernardino to be about guns and not Islamic terrorism. Once the FBI called it as a terrorist act, he got REALLY upset:

http://dcwhispers.com/obama-dragged-to-address-terror-threat-kicking-screaming/


2 posted on 12/08/2015 10:32:10 AM PST by kozanne
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To: Kaslin

The Debate on guns IS over.

Victim Disarmament laws/zones don’t work. Repeal them all and give us our FULL RKBA back.

Don’t make us TAKE it back... You won’t like that.


3 posted on 12/08/2015 10:32:40 AM PST by Dead Corpse (A Psalm in napalm...)
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To: Kaslin
Yeah, I know that I post this link a lot, but it needs to be spread far and wide: http://www.truthrevolt.org/videos/bill-whittle-number-one-bullet

Note: I have no affiliation with Truth Revolt or Bill Whittle -- NOT blog-pimping.

4 posted on 12/08/2015 10:37:35 AM PST by piytar (http://www.truthrevolt.org/videos/bill-whittle-number-one-bullet)
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To: Kaslin
Officers arrived at the scene in four minutes

When seconds count the police are only minutes away.

5 posted on 12/08/2015 10:45:22 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Kaslin

***I supported California’s 1989 assault weapon ban. The bill passed after a vicious elementary schoolyard shooting in Stockton left five children dead. The shooter had an AK-47.***

For those who have forgotten the past, here is show it went down.
California draws up a bill to ban rapid fire semi-auto rifles, lever action rifles and limit magazine capacity. A firestorm ensues and Cali then deletes the ban on lever action rifles and shelves the bill.

WE hunker down knowing something will break lose in Cali, and it does!

California released, for the SEVENTH TIME, mental patient PAT PURDY who proceeds to get an AK-47 semi auto in Oregon, then comes to California again where he LEGALLY buys a handgun, passing the background checks and waiting period.

He then goes to a school in Stockton, CA and proceeds to shoot up the playground killing and wounding several students.
The shelved bill is immediately pulled out, introduced and passed before gun owners can say “WHAT HAPPENED!”

Now they say that they need “more gun laws” to close up non existent loopholes in the law.


6 posted on 12/08/2015 10:51:39 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Kaslin

Any thoughts on what would have happened if the two had not loitered in the area to detonate their IED’s? Or, if their IED’s had detonated?


7 posted on 12/08/2015 10:53:31 AM PST by Purdue77 ("...shall not be infringed.")
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To: Kaslin

If the good guys would just give away their guns, their would be safe from the bad guys. (Sarcasm).


8 posted on 12/08/2015 10:54:34 AM PST by ZULU (Mt. McKinley is the tallest mountain in N. America. Denali is Aleut for "scam artist.")
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To: Dead Corpse
Debra has a great point with this.

Irresponsible owners leave loaded weapons where children can find them.

Should irresponsible gun owners, who leave their loaded weapons around were children can find them, allowed to have guns? I don't think so.

9 posted on 12/08/2015 10:54:46 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
It is no surprise that the bills are written up and ready to go, to exploit the bloodshed, to 'do something!', and just waiting for the right incident. The people who write those bills and exploit the slaughter to try to achieve their ends don't wait for the blood to dry.

They don't care for the victims, they only care for advancing their agenda.

10 posted on 12/08/2015 10:57:43 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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Enjoy The Season!

Click The Pic To Donate

And Don't Forget To Support FR

11 posted on 12/08/2015 10:57:50 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: ZULU
The good and responsible gun owners should never have to turn their guns in, but the irresponsible idiots who leave their loaded weapons laying around where children can find them should certainly have to turn their guns in.
12 posted on 12/08/2015 10:59:45 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: Kaslin

Gun debate is over, obuma is over, there isn’t a thing obuma can do to America now, Trump trumped him yesterday and put obuma in a corner...Hillary can’t do anything, she’s done...


13 posted on 12/08/2015 11:00:12 AM PST by HarleyLady27 (TRUMP SUPPORTER 100% from day ONE!!!)
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To: Kaslin
When I was a child, my parents left a loaded gun where I could find it, in a nice wooden rack right over my bed. I also knew which drawer had my Dad's S&W model 10.

They must not have loved me very much, lol.

14 posted on 12/08/2015 11:03:24 AM PST by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Kaslin
Fact is, I knew next to nothing about guns. I wrongly equated semi-automatic weapons with automatic weapons. I wrongly thought the guns banned in the 1989 law were faster than other semi-automatic long guns. I felt virtuous because at least I was supporting something.

Such a writer is arguably MORE civically dangerous than a single irresponsible parent who leaves a gun where a child can get it.

Such writers should be stripped of their 1st Amendment right to publish their short-sighted and vain musings.

15 posted on 12/08/2015 11:04:55 AM PST by papertyger (-/\/\/\-)
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To: Kaslin
Should irresponsible gun owners, who leave their loaded weapons around were children can find them, allowed to have guns? I don't think so.

Hoo Boy!

That's some dangerous ground, right there.

Ever tell a kid to leave something alone? Some will, some are going to take a little 'educating'.

If a child wants to locate something, they will, sooner or later.

Can a determined child find my guns (well some of them)? Sure. A determined child can find a penny in a grain bin. The trick is to dampen that determination by teaching kids what not to do.

My father had a closet in which resided all long guns. It was open, the ammo was on the shelf. We had been told that if we wanted to go shooting, we were to ask. (rural setting). If, however, we ever took a firearm without his express authorization and approval (and supervision), we not only would not be allowed to shoot for a year, but we wouldn't (when we were older) get to go hunting that year, either.

We didn't mess with the guns, we didn't let our friends mess with the guns. Period.

We knew where the handguns were, too, and that they were loaded, but we did not mess with them at all.

Now, there are those who might debate this, but I don't see my father as irresponsible. He just raised responsible kids.

YMMV, one size does not fit all.

16 posted on 12/08/2015 11:08:20 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Kaslin

And we can rely on the government to make that distinction?


17 posted on 12/08/2015 11:16:26 AM PST by ZULU (Mt. McKinley is the tallest mountain in N. America. Denali is Aleut for "scam artist.")
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To: Kaslin; Kartographer
I was reading through the comments to a SHTFplan article Peter Schiff Warns: "The Whole Economy Has Imploded...Collapse Is Coming"
sixpack says:
December 7, 2015 at 6:27 pm

OT:

I was listening to my police scanner in the background this weekend. There was the usual mexican drug chases and traffic stops, but there were also a couple that made me stop and listen.

There was one call where one "grandfather" was throwing rocks at another "grandfather. They turned out to have ME names, and were fighting over a grand daughter for some unspecified reason. The cops showed up just in time to confiscate what they said was a machete.

There was also a stash of unspecified weapons, "explosive devices" and canned goods found by a hiker in Mt. Hood Nat'l forest (which I live right next to). Looks like some prepper lost their emergency cache.

We've got bad weather here right now, so the scanner is pretty busy.

Reply

Wolverine says:
December 7, 2015 at 7:33 pm

I challenge anyone to listen to the Detroit police dispatch. Then you will see that prepping is a must. Once those people are turned loose, due to police walk offs, no food or heat , you will need to be prepared to fight for your lives.

Observations like those add that certain something to the gun debate best considered and honored while we're still living in the "Before" picture.
18 posted on 12/08/2015 11:19:56 AM PST by GBA (Just a hick in paradise and There Are FOUR Lights!)
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To: Kaslin

“Should irresponsible gun owners, who leave their loaded weapons around were children can find them, allowed to have guns?”

Was my Dad irresponsible? I always knew where his guns were, and knew better than to bother them. I also learned from him how to safely use and correctly care for the guns.

Was I irresponsible? My daughter always knew where my guns were, for a long time the long arms were on a rack in the dining room. I now keep them all locked up, but not because of her, but in case someone breaks in while I am not home. My teen daughter going to the range with me has been a great bonding experience.

Neither I nor my daughter were kept in the dark about guns. We learned at an early age to respect them.


19 posted on 12/08/2015 11:23:35 AM PST by fredhead (Join the Navy and see the world.....77% of which is covered in water.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
No your father was definitely not a irresponsible gun owner, just the opposite

I am sure you have seen news reports or read about them, where toddlers or young children find loaded guns and then accidentally shoot their little friend, brother, or sister and even their parent. It has happened many times.

20 posted on 12/08/2015 11:30:11 AM PST by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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