Posted on 11/25/2015 6:53:49 AM PST by amorphous
On Tuesday evening, we took a close look at the circumstances surrounding Turkey's decision to shoot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border. The incident was the most meaningful escalation in the conflict to date and marks the first time a Russian or Soviet plane has been downed by NATO since 1953.
The pilots ejected, one of whom was shot in his parachute by FSA-affiliated Alwiya al-Ashar militiamen who subsequently celebrated over the body. About an hour later, the FSA's 1st Coastal Brigade used a US-made TOW to destroy a Russian search and rescue helicopter, killing one Russian marine.
For his part, Vladimir Putin called Erdogan a backstabber and proceeded to accuse Turkey of flying the black flag of ISIS and funding the Islamic State cause by facilitating the sale of illegal crude.
(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...
Not too sure what the plan is or even if there still is a plan, now that things seem to have gotten out of hand. I’m pretty sure though eventually Israel will be targeted with massive destruction and loss of life. I do know thousands of Christians have already paid the ultimate price for Obama and Erdogan’s plotting.
US strategic command flight patterns.
Cryptically stated - I'm guessing for a reason.
Are you saying that USSTRATCOM has satellite recordings of the specific flight patterns of the aircraft involved (certainly possible) and that this data has been publicly released and we can review it (very unlikely)?
The general attitude on these threads seems to be: "If it says so in the Gospel, you should check with Putin first before you believe it."
That question has no bearing on whether or not I trust Russia or Turkey. It is an unrelated topic. I don’t trust Russia, nor do I trust Turkey, and both are NOT looking out for the interests of Americans. Even if my government isn’t looking out for me either, it doesn’t impact the untrustworthiness of Turkey or Russia. Deflecting will not help you.
Between the Russian sockpuppets, the Russian shills, the Americans with mail-order Russian brides, and the weak-minded who just want to follow whoever appears to be the strongest, these threads get swamped by Putinistas faster than Obama can say “I hate America”...
Poor baby.
Precisely
Up yours... The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances provides security assurances to all signatories relating to Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.
So you admit that you are assuming the content of data you do not have.
And with Russia bringing in their new S-400 anti-aircraft missiles they'll be able to target Israeli planes while the are still deep into Israeli territory...
I don’t trust the Russians, either.
Have you seen this. You know combat planes travel very fast right? From Turkey's view, Russian plane were only in their territory for 17seconds, no where near enough time to give them multiple warnings. You seriously think that warrant a death sentence? The proper protocol was the escort them out
A bomber on an active combat mission is aiming for the Turkish national border. Turkish flight controllers issue warnings to that aircraft that their course needs to change. No response is received and the aircraft is not changing course. Turkish fighters are scrambled to intercept the combat aircraft heading for their national border. Additional warnings are issued by Turkish flight controllers.
Turkish pilots are informed by flight controllers that the bomber is still aiming for Turkey's border. They issue warnings on guard that the flight needs to change course immediately. One would assume that every system on the Russian aircraft designed to detect a targeting lock is going off, though the weapons officer on the Russian bomber reports that they had no warning that they were being fired upon - really? Russians can't detect an F-16 weapon system targeting them?
Additional warnings are sent, then the Russian warplane enters Turkey and the Turkish pilots fire upon the bomber.
So, to address your question: Do I think a nation (any nation, I honestly don't care which, could be North Korea for all I care) has the right to shoot down a combat aircraft that has entered their airspace and refused to reply nor change their course? Absolutely.
The claim is that they were going to bomb a target in Syria - so they notified Turkey of their intended target? Provide that evidence, Russia. Provide anything that would fully justify purposefully violating Turkish airspace with a combat aircraft in active combat operations.
The claim is that the Russian pilot never heard the warning - recordings from civilian flights in the region recorded the entire guard warnings from start to finish. Even if the aircraft in question somehow didn't hear the warnings, Russian controllers absolutely did, and unless they have no communications capabilities, they had every option to warn the pilot to change course.
This was yet another intentional action of violating NATO airspace on a combat mission. Russia's never shown any fear of doing that.
Oh, but Turkey's violated Syria's airspace repeatedly while bombing Kurds - and? If Syria shot down the Turkish bomber in their airspace, I've no problem with that.
We're not talking some civilian flight straying off course, or even a military supply craft - it was a warplane on active combat operations, and last I checked, warplanes don't broadcast their targets for the world to see.
I'm very happy at least one person lived through this case of hubris. Hopefully the Russians won't kill any more of their people by not responding to standard communications.
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